Changemaker Dr. Kimberly Clay, Founder and CEO, Play Like a Girl

What happens when a lack of belonging sparks a movement?

In this episode of Agency for Change, Lyn Wineman sits down with Dr. Kimberly Clay, Founder and CEO of Play Like a Girl, to explore how confidence, community, and early opportunity can shape a girl’s future in STEM.

Dr. Kim shares the deeply personal story behind Play Like a Girl—how it began as a small support circle during her doctoral studies and grew into a national nonprofit helping girls build leadership skills and pathways into male-dominated careers. She explains why middle school is a critical window for engagement, how sports develop skills that translate far beyond the field, and why service is at the core of everything she does.

From powerful data points to inspiring stories of impact, this conversation is a reminder that when we invest in girls early—and intentionally—we change what’s possible for generations to come.

Connect with Dr. Kimberly Clay and Play Like a Girl at:
·       Website – https://iplaylikeagirl.org/

Transcript

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Connect with Dr. Kimberly Clay and Play Like a Girl at: 

·       Website – https://iplaylikeagirl.org/

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 0:00

Dream big, dream early, and dream often.

Announcer: 0:08

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of change makers who are actively working to improve our community. In every episode, we'll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call homes.

Lyn Wineman: 0:32

Hey everyone, this is Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist at KidGlov. Welcome back to the Agency for Change podcast. One of the things we talk about a lot on this show is how early opportunity or sometimes the lack of it can shape what people believe is possible for their own futures. And when it comes to STEM, too many girls begin to opt out long before they ever get the chance to opt in. That's why I'm excited to talk to today's guest, Dr. Kimberly Clay. She is the founder and CEO of a nonprofit called Play Like a Girl. This is a really interesting organization that's using sport to help girls build confidence, leadership, and pathways into STEM careers. Dr. Kim, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 1:32

Thank you for having me this morning. I'm super excited to have what I hope is a robust conversation that will perhaps teach a couple of things that people don't know about this world of nonprofits, specifically Play Like a Girl, our cause, our issue, and perhaps even, you know, agitate some folks in some areas around the world that they do.

Lyn Wineman: 1:52

So all right, let's do it. You are the first guest I have talked to in over 250 guests that started with a goal of perhaps agitating some people. So that's kind of exciting. Let's get into it. I'd love to have you start by telling us more about Play Like a Girl and the work that you're doing.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 2:15

Yeah, well, Play Like a Girl was my brainchild in no intention to become a nonprofit. It was simply birthed out of my own need as a doctoral student at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. Many years ago, 20 years now, I walked into the campus, African-American woman from the South, born and raised. I was actually raised in rural Mississippi in the in the deep South Delta, the Mississippi. So coming with that experience, having worked at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, having attended a historically black college or university, Xavier University of Louisiana here in New Orleans, I had a lot of lived experience that had defined my life at that point. And so bringing that to bear, walked onto that campus, this African-American woman who was wed to an African-American male who was also pursuing his residency training in medicine, internal medicine and pediatrics, recognizing that there were not many people on campus who looked like us at the terminal degree point on my campus. I was also funded through the National Institutes of Health, specifically the National Cancer Institute, as a trainee, a fellow to do both my undergrad my graduate studies at the PhD level and then my post-umcal uh training at the university in the uh Center for Health Disparities. And so recognizing that there was a positive of both women, women of color and persons of color in those programs, I had to create a solution for myself, uh, a support system. And so Play Like a Girl started as a sister friend group in my 1950s rancher uh on 11th Avenue in Birmingham. And it literally started as a plus one kind of date once a month, where every woman in the circle, initially there were seven of us who were invited, were burdened with the challenge of finding another woman uh to bring uh into the community each month. And so everyone got to invite a plus one by October of that year, because I started in July, we had like over 125 women in the circle. And my husband was like, Well, one, it can't continue in the living room. So we started rotating, and then from there we grew large enough to host a retreat uh the next year. And from there, it was my husband who challenged me in that I he felt I had something that was real, something that would potentially have great impact if it were scaled and made available to others. And that's when I started to visualize something much bigger. So two years later, uh I incorporated Play Like a Girl, established it as a nonprofit. It was operating under a different name at that point. But the work continued and continues today as a result of what I knew to be true, and that was that there was a lack of belonging for me as a woman and a woman of color, a person of color on that campus in the STEM fields specifically, and at the highest level of education, and that I could potentially be a conduit, a catalyst of change for not just the women among with which I walked campus, but also those that would follow us.

Lyn Wineman: 5:50

You know, Dr. Kim, one of the reasons I love doing this podcast is because I get to talk to people like yourself who see a challenge in the world and they don't accept it. They take the action to move forward. And I so appreciate that. A, about what you started, and B, about the fact that your husband challenged you to take it further. So could you tell us a little bit about what Play Like a Girl has become today? What does the work look like?

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 6:27

So, one, in its original form, we did none of what we do today. Okay. In its original form, it was not as thoughtful as I just uh described to you. In its original form, it was just an accidental occurrence that was bred out of what I can now articulate, right? As the reality of the truth in which I live, the knowledge in which I lived. The truth that had created me to be who I am today. So today, Play Like a Girl is a national 501c3 organization headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee. I love that city. And we specifically leverage the skills that girls gain from sport to help propel them into male-dominated careers, competitive careers uh where men outnumber women.

We decided about probably eight to ten years ago to centrally focus on STEM, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, specifically because STEM fields actually travel very consistently with sports for women and girls, in that girls drop out of sport or lose interest in STEM at twice the rate of boys as they transition from middle school to high school, which is why we also focus on targeting middle school girls, so getting girls before it's too late. Because if we wait until high school, we've already missed the window of opportunity. The other reason that we chose STEM to be the academic outcome is because STEM actually represents the one set of fields where women are almost at parody and pay. So in thinking about true impact over the long term of the work that we do, what we really want to see is that we break the intergenerational cycle of poverty for many girls and women that is deeply rooted in how they show up in the workplace, right? What career pathways are available to them? Will they persist in those career pathways? And then will they be able to earn equal, fair, and competitive salaries in those careers? And so STEM has been one where a great amount of work has been done with a lot of male allies as well. We really focus on strengthening male to female relationships and then allyship on behalf of women among men. And so that's the work that we do today. Not every girl is going to participate in sport, not every girl is going to fall in love with STEM. So every girl, no matter her background, her interests, has the opportunity to participate. And we just do the work of making sure that they acquire the skills, both soft and hard, to take with them wherever they choose to go in life. However, yes, we do want to see our girls ultimately land those jobs. What the science says through an ESPN and Earn Jin Young study is that 94% of women in the C-suite, 94% of them played sport, 56% of them played through college. So several years ago, we also added a college scholarship program, uh, which is now funded about 27 African-American women pursuing STEM at historically black colleges and universities. So I'm most proud, I think, of that work because it was done uh in memorial to a long-standing uh Play Like a Girl volunteer who lost her life, her battle with uh a rare cancer. She was trained at my alma mater, Dave University of Louisiana here in New Orleans, and later at Maharry College of Medicine in Nashville. So again, our worlds kind of aligned. She happens to be my sorority sister, but I didn't even know that uh when we were on campus because I didn't know her because she was older than I was, but she later crossed paths with me uh when she relocated home to Alabama and Play Like a Girl was incorporated there because I was there as a student, and she became a um a volunteer and long-term, long-time donor. And so we grew in relationship over those years. And when she passed, my husband and I decided to establish a scholarship in her memory, and so that is what we now continue to fund and to fuel. We see our first college graduates, not just from our middle school programs over the years. We've got a number of those students who are now either matriculating in graduate school or undergrad, have entered their first jobs. But this year, we also got the benefit of our first fourth year grads to complete uh theirs with their scholarship support, their four years of undergraduate studies. And so we have, in addition, uh a student who has completed her uh Pharm D, uh, so a doctor of pharmacy who is continuing on and doing her residency training at Belmont University, Lipscomb, I'm sorry, Lipscomb University in Nashville. We have one who has also completed her medical training at Maharry Medical College and is completing residency and pediatrics at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Uh, we have another who just completed her master's of business administration with a focus in fashion design and uh that area of the art piece. So if you look and think about STEM to steam, she's essentially focused in the A. So those are just examples of, you know, just amazing stories of impact and success that has come out of Play Like a Girl. And so for me, as I near what I hope are my last three to four years uh at the helm of the organization, it is fulfilling to see the results of the work over these 20 years.

Lyn Wineman: 12:17

Yeah. Dr. Kim, you dropped some really great data points on us too that I was unaware of. I mean, I've I've always heard that girls tend to drop out of sports, girls tend to drop out of STEM studies, because it just seems like there's so many forces that they're up against to move forward in that area. But I heard you say that of the CEOs that are currently active, a high percentage of them played not only sports, but college sports.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 12:56

94% of women in the C-suite, and that's every level, right? So it's technology CIOs, it's uh operations, COOs, CEOs, executives. 94% of those report globally.

Lyn Wineman: 13:14

Globally, okay, not just in Nashville, not just in the US, but globally.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 13:20

They played sport, 56% of them through college. So for us, that was an aha moment that we were at the time leveraging sport for the physical and uh health benefit, right? That sport is more a catalyst around leadership and potential, right? Really getting women there. Because when ESPN and Ernst Young conducted the study in 2012-2014, they also asked follow-up questions. They probed why. What is it that you gain from sport that helps prepare you for a career, a competitive career? Because again, we're talking in spaces where women are not necessarily represented at the highest level of companies. And what women uh identified were you know characteristics like confidence, resiliency, you know, the ability to bounce back from failure, the ability to manage teams, right? So when we think about, say, the dropout of sport, you know, women losing interest or dropping out of sport, girls specifically between middle school and high school, often there's a focus on pay-to-play, right? We know now that there's this big emphasis on getting kids into the sport that's gonna ultimately send them to the professional leagues. Well, one, let's control for the fact that women don't have many options as compared to males. So that's that that's not necessarily a variable that we can predict or control. Yeah. And there's not much leeway there anyway. Secondly, many think about the developmental body development changes, not another variable that we can change. But there are variables that we can change, which are related to confidence, the lack of role models, the lack of sense of belonging, all the things that these uh women indicate that sport gave them to help them be able to not only survive but thrive in some of the highest, most competitive spaces where men outnumber women, where women are often not welcomed, where there's not often a clear pathway for women in career. So when we look at the science around STEM and sport, these are also through lines for these uh specific areas of industry, uh, whether it be from the playful side or the work site side, right? So thus we have built what we believe is uh a strong uh cohort-based program working with middle school girls from sixth to eighth grade, where we centrally focus on building confidence, connections, and career readiness.

Lyn Wineman: 15:54

I like that confidence, connections, and career readiness. So let's say somebody's listening right now. We don't we don't have a lot of young girls listening to this podcast, as far as I can tell from our data, but I think we have a lot of parents that might be listening. So let's say somebody's got that middle school aged girl in their life. How can they access your programs?

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 16:17

Well, one, we actually made probably the most uh world shifting decision ever, just this year. So one, I say world shifting, in that it changed everything about how we do our programs and how accessible our programs will be to girls in the public. So one, that decision was to make our programs school-based. For the last 20 years, they've been community-based programs. But post-pandemic, we experienced a lot of attrition. So girls not showing up for sessions, girls not appearing for sponsored events and those types of things. And you know, in this world of funding and sponsorships, it's critical that the audience actually shows up to bring bear, you know, the things, the investment that the sponsors have made. So, in addition to that, in the political climate, with so much of equity work being defunded for the removal of entire centers to support the work and the research, what we also recognize is that we were going for further and further into the whole of the lack of belonging piece, right? So we made the decision not just to make our program school-based, but also to specifically focus on moving our programs into safe school environments, which now uh we've partnered with girls' schools across the country. We've identified based upon interest and call demand for our program, but also where our audience specifically resides and has built kind of a groundswell, five cities across the U.S. And in each of those cities we will establish one school partnership. Uh it will be with a girls' school. Uh, some schools may have co-ed environments, but largely focuses on meeting the needs of girls. We’ve pilot tested this year five, one in Boston, Seattle, Nashville, New Orleans, and Dallas. And so our goal is to add five new schools each year. And with each school, we have a co-based program through which girls enter in their sixth grade year and continue together on a journey through seventh and eighth grade so that we're able to look at this very defined audience of girls as it pertains to the outcomes that we measure. But then we also benefit every girl in that school through a larger platform of our annual Girls Rock STEM Summit, uh, where we work with the corporate partner to bring hands-on interactive activities, demonstrations, and workshops to the entire school body, uh, along with leveraging our partnerships with brands like the NFL, NHL, and other divisions of sport to also provide access for every girl in that school, every student to participate in our Play Like a Girl field days, which are sports-focused activities where again girls are learning and defining and developing their skill sets around a range of sports. But we've been doing a lot of work the last several years with the NFL and flag football as we prepare for the Olympics, the Summer Olympics coming up, where uh flag football will make its debut. And then again, our goal is at home in Nashville to also continue with some of our public school partnerships that are also co ed because we recognize that our donor base is there, and we want to be able to also uh see or at least demonstrate partnership at scale in our own community as well.

Lyn Wineman: 19:57

Yep. Dr. Kim, you mentioned that when you started this, you didn't you didn't really envision it becoming this. And you know, one consistent thread we've had from different podcast guests as we ask them for advice is many of them will say, don't wait to be perfect to start. Right. And I think you saw a challenge, you did something about it, you created a movement that now is roadmapped to impact girls in 25 different cities, sponsorships with the NFL, sponsorships with the National Hockey League, looking forward to the Olympics. I mean, seriously, as you think about that, you gotta feel a warm fuzzy about all of the impact that's happening there.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 20:51

And the truth of it is that it would not be possible with without our corporate partners. Many people know the Firestone side of things. There have been, you know, partnerships with Amazon and Google and you know so many other brands out there that people um patronize every single day. There are on the tires on your cars, they're the rubber in your golf balls, they're you know the equipment you do your hair with, the one that you use for your smoothies or your coffee in the morning. Those are the brands that have leveraged their relationships with many of the leagues and other entities to bring Play Like a Girl together with them to do this work and have such an impact in community. And so I think it's it we can't not give them recognition for living up to their corporate social responsibilities and truly wanting to make a difference in the lives of people in the communities that we work in or where we work. So we have really been fortunate to build a brand that's recognizable, that has integrity, that has great, great what's the word I'm looking for, you know, proven impact over 20 years that brands like those named, whether it be sport or corporate, would want to align and support the work that we do.

Lyn Wineman: 22:20

Absolutely so let's say we've got a listener that wants to support you either corporately or individually, what's the best way for them to connect?

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 22:28

Yeah the best way to connect with us is through our website at iplaylikeagirl.org. We do have in the top of the website a link for companies to you know inquire and get more information and there are forms there that will reach us in the front office to make those conversations, follow-up conversations happen. But then there are also donation buttons all over the site as you can imagine with a nonprofit for individuals to also support. We also are always in dire need of volunteers and mentors. We actually through our school-based programs utilize a very specific form of mentoring called flash mentoring which is really focused on providing girls with access to episodic low impact but high I mean sorry low effort but high impact mentoring opportunities. So we treat every moment that a woman spends with a girl whether formal or informal as a mentoring opportunity. And so with that we do not require mentors to have ongoing long-term commitments to a girl because we recognize that high performing women the women we talked about are women who are already overtaxed, overcommitted but really still want to make an impact. So we want to make it easier for them. We want to make it easy for women's networks and business uh ERGs or employee resource groups within companies to support us as well so we do build custom opportunities through those partnership opportunities. And so they can also go to our volunteer page on the Play Like a Girl website to actually sign up to mentor or to volunteer in their own community as well.

Lyn Wineman: 24:10

I appreciate your thoughtfulness on this across the board because I do have to admit I love to help and inspire and provide information but the thought of a long-term ongoing commitment is a little bit overwhelming with the requirements of my schedule and most women's schedules so thank you for that. We'll get all of those links in the show notes on the KidGlov website as well so that people can link in.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 24:40

Yeah can I add to Lyn that you know to your point for those who are looking for the long-term you know high impact lift in terms of what they can offer, we are around the clock around the year but right now specifically recruiting new board members our board is national in scale so we have a a page dedicated to that job description and position opportunity description so on iplaylifagirl.org/jobs is a description of the types of people we're looking for the strategic priorities that we have as a board of directors and organization so I really encourage people if you're in talent management that's huge we have a cadre of athlete ambassadors really professional athletes women who are performing at the highest lead highest level as elite athletes at the collegiate level we have a number of NIL uh sponsored athletes as well and so we want specifically individuals who worked in the influencer and talent management space who can help us really strengthen our ambassador program so that's one area anyone who has event planning PR or experiential marketing experience that's a huge area of need that we have on our board. We definitely want more men whether you are a girl dad or a man who aligns and wants to be an ally to the work that we're doing we need more men represented on our board certainly folks in banking and finance who understand money partnerships, corporate partnerships and sponsorships in particular so it's an all-call opportunity but there are some very specific areas of need that we've identified as it pertains to our board of directors. So if you're looking to have you know three years of real intentional impact on a growing thriving nonprofit and the girls that are served as a benefit, this would be a great place to serve.

Lyn Wineman: 26:46

That's fantastic. And as with everything else you are very thoughtful in the strategy of what you're putting together and that ask there. I have one more question for you and then I'm gonna get to my favorite question that I ask on every podcast but let's say someone's listening and they've been thinking about this for a while or they're just inspired today, they want to support young girls in their trajectory, what advice would you have for somebody who wants to provide that support?

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 27:10

Well you know this is something that we believe at the core of who we are it's in our DNA at Play Like a Girl and that is that every one of us is a role model. Choose it or not, we are right if you are thoughtful and intentional you'll choose to be a really positive one. As I said we focus on confidence connections and career readiness and the connections piece is the role models and mentors and then also the the sisterhood that we create among our community because again we want to address this concern and issue around lack of belonging not having a space or place and then also not seeing others in this space who've preceded you to say that it's okay there's a place here for you. So one is accepting that I am first a role model and then deciding with that what I want to do. And the contribution that each of us can make does not have to be overwhelming. It does not have to be as we've talked about multi-layered or multi-component it it literally can be one off it could be one time it could be you know compartmentalized uh in so many different ways so the first I'd say after you recognize that you are a role model to decide how you want to give back. And then thirdly to do it with intention I while running an organization carrying many of the responsibilities wearing many of the hats for the last 20 years it never stopped me from serving. So I sit on the boards of other organizations. And what I will say is that what I have found to be true in my life is that service to others pays rich dividends. Yes. Everything we put out comes back to us in some form or fashion. It doesn't necessarily align always in the the exact way we put it out but it does come back. And so I've learned as much from organizations like Step Up where I serve on a board of directors or Chick Tech another organization that helps me be better in the job that I have as CEO of Play Like a Girl. So as much as I give I'm also receiving and the girls that I serve are also benefiting. So I think you know finding that way that you can naturally give back whether it's mentoring volunteering you know again there are organizations like ours and you know I'm not gonna be selfish and just saying come you know serve at Play Like a Girl but there are other organizations even in your own community the schools where we have partnerships even your women's network at your company could use volunteers. There are a multitude of ways to serve and there's multitude of needs uh and many of them also need skilled workers right so if you're in marketing as I just made the call and you have experience writing toolkits and creating toolboxes or guides or activation kits for experiential events whatever it is that's a need we have at Play Like a Girl there may be a similar need that requires your expertise and skill set for another organization. So it could be again using your hard skills but then also your life skills and those softer skills in in forms like mentoring. So you can choose many different ways to give back but I certainly believe that if you first accept that in this work that we do around mentoring and modeling that you are a role model. You have something to add and then finding out and deciding where it is that you want to put that added value and doing so consistently and with integrity and with intention it will come back.

Lyn Wineman: 31:08

I really appreciate that because I'm gonna lean in and say that you know once I'm done running my business at KidGlov and raising my family I don't have a lot of extra time I don't have a lot of hobbies. I'm not good at cooking or gardening or crafting but I love to serve on nonprofit boards and I'm gonna agree with you 100% it's an experience that gives back more that I feel like I receive more than I give, right? And I'm often that marketing person on a board that advocates for those types of things but have met so many interesting people and learned so many interesting things in addition to just having the great feeling of making a difference in the world. So all right Dr. Kim I am going to transition to my favorite question that I mentioned earlier. I am so lucky in that I get to speak to so many inspiring people like yourself that are doing big things. I would love a Dr. Kim original quote to inspire our listeners.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 32:10

So yeah this is this one's somewhat hard in that I'm sometimes so belabored with the work that I don't know that I'm so inspirational in the world.

Lyn Wineman: 32:22

I am so inspired right now so I'm just gonna say that.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 32:26

Well thank you uh but one thing I've said many years and I truly wholeheartedly believe it. I believe there's power in it. I am a spiritual girl I grew up in the church. I was the church pianist who married the church pianist who pastors' kids or the grandkids of pastors. So scripture is so much a part of my life. So while this quote doesn't necessarily come as a rephrasing of scripture it is grounded in a principle belief that I have in the power of reciprocity and the power of what I believe to be scripture based in terms of again what we put into the world coming back to us. And uh it starts from scripture in Habakka and it's simply written write the vision, make it plain. And though it may carry right may may be far off for those who will glean upon it, put it out there, right? Because it will eventually come to pass. And many people often say to me who've known me for most of my life that what inspires the most is having seen me profess what I believe and to set goals to go after them and to see them manifest. And sometimes that's even important to me as a reminder that I've got to speak what I believe and manifestation will come as a result of hard work right and uh what I believe is God in the creation aligning to support me in that effort. And so my quote would be simply dream big dream early and dream often.

Lyn Wineman: 34:13

I love it dream big dream early dream often I love how that dovetails with your story with your mission and the work that you're doing at Play Like a Girl I have so enjoyed this conversation and I'm glad you and I had the opportunity to connect I have one last question for you today and that is what is the most important thing you would like people to remember about the work that you're doing 

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 34:52

Very clear and simple. I've done everything that I have to have in service to others. Twenty years ago, I established Play Like a Girl but 15 years ago I left a thriving productive successful career in academic research I am published in cancer survivorship research having discovered the cancer of my brother at age seven and lost him two years later at age nine never thinking that I would ever land in healthcare in my career but certainly not in cancer research landed there published doing important work bridging the worlds of religiosity and spirituality with this world of cancer and cancer survivorship trying to understand how to leverage spirituality to get people through their first five year years of survivorship and beyond and did great work there. I was professor at the University of Georgia and Morehouse School of Medicine loved what I was doing but felt the call uh to come and do Play Like a Girl full time but to do it without a salary or benefits. And so I often say it as I share the story many people don't know but there's not anyone else I know who's crazy enough to work for free for 15 years. But when you are called to a work when you know that it is your life's purpose to do this work um it becomes easy and then God has afforded me in my situation a partner as illustrated earlier who is willing to finance it and fundraise for it and do all of the things to ensure my success um my ability to live out the calling that I have on my life to serve in this way. And so for me I hope that rings true right for everyone who crosses paths with me everyone who serves at Play Like a Girl in any way everyone who makes a donation to impact the life of a girl in our programs I hope that they know hear and understand that I have served and that service is at the root of what we do but that they too can serve and that service begets more service begets more impact and begets more lives changed. And that is my hope that we will continue to extend ourselves in service of others, especially now, right in this time of the year, this season of the year, I think it's a great time as we set goals for the year ahead as we reflect on the things that we did well last year and the things that we can do even better in the year to come, that we set goals to serve, to serve others in every facet of life or every facet that we so choose, we find a space and a place to serve and know that in our service, those deposits that we create in the earth, whether it's in the lives of people or in organizations, that it will turn a great reward.

Lyn Wineman: 37:54

Dr. Kim, when you talk about being a role model, I can't think of a better example than that. I'm gonna say I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more nonprofits like Play Like a Girl, and I so appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with us today.

Dr. Kimberly Clay: 38:15

Well thank you for the platform and the opportunity. I would be remiss to not give my mother credit because when we talk about role models I will say your first and most important role model is that one at home. And my mom modeled service my mom has continued in her late 70s now to model love for others and that translates as service to others. And so because I saw it as a child it became easy to do what I saw to be natural in my mother. And so yeah I appreciate the opportunity to share and hopefully be the role model for someone else to then do the same.

Lyn Wineman: 38:59

That's fantastic. What a great shout out and honor to your mom and all moms out there who maybe don't realize when they're tired and frazzled and doing the work and putting their family in front of themselves what a significant impact they're making. Thank you so much, Dr. Kim.

Announcer: 39:17

We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities or to nominate a change maker you'd love to hear from visit kidglov.com at kidglov.com to get in touch. As always if you like what you've heard today be sure to rate review subscribe and share thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.