Agency for Change : A Podcast from KidGlov

Changemaker Patrick Kirby, Founder, Do Good Better Consulting

• KidGlov • Season 1 • Episode 271

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Fundraising doesn’t have to feel heavy, complex, or awkward. Sitting down with Patrick Kirby, Founder of Do Good Better Consulting and two-time bestselling author, we unpack how joy, clarity, and genuine relationships can turn stalled efforts into real momentum. Patrick’s energy is contagious, but his playbook is practical: name the real problems (too few donors, quiet boards, stale events), pick one to fix, and take action you can control, like meaningful meetings and follow-ups that tell a clear story of impact.

We dig into why enthusiasm is not a gimmick but an advantage. Donors want to feel purpose, not pressure. Patrick shows how to shift from “selling” to aligning values, inviting people into a vision they can see and touch. You’ll hear the fifth-grader mindset that inspired his book — be bold, be honest, be curious — and the memorable “dog rule”: never ask for a major gift until you know the donor’s dog’s name. It’s a reminder that development is human first, always.

If you’re looking for strategies to grow donors, energize your board, refresh events, and reclaim the joy of fundraising, this conversation brings both the spark and the steps.

Welcome to the Agency for Change podcast.

Connect with Patrick and Do Good Better at: 

·       Website – http://dogoodbetterconsulting.com/

Connect with Patrick and Do Good Better at: 

·       Website – http://dogoodbetterconsulting.com/

 

Patrick Kirby: 0:00

Just freaking do it.

Announcer: 0:07

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of changemakers who are actively working to improve our community. In every episode, we'll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call homes.

Lyn Wineman: 0:30

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for Change podcast. This is Lyn Wineman, President and Chief Strategist of KidGlov. So I want to say, buckle up, friends. This episode is going to be high energy and it's going to be a whole lot of fun. My guest today is my friend Patrick Kirby. He is the Founder of Do Good Better Consulting and the living embodiment of caffeinated enthusiasm. He is a fundraising expert, a two-time Amazon best-selling author, and someone who believes nonprofits deserve better than burnout and budget gaps. I believe that's true. Patrick, welcome to the podcast.

Patrick Kirby: 1:15

Hi. I am so excited to be here. This has been, I this has been on my calendar for a while. We have talked about it for a long time. I've drank twice as much coffee as I typically have for you. I am very excited. Thank you so much for allowing me to be a guest on your podcast. I am stoked to be here.

Lyn Wineman: 1:35

Oh, Patrick, I love you, man. This is why I call you the human embodiment of caffeine, because you have got all the energy, all the fun going on. I have been looking forward to this as well. And let's just dive in.

Why don't you tell us about do good better consulting? What do you do?

Patrick Kirby: 1:57

We are a consulting firm that helps nonprofits suck less at fundraising.

Lyn Wineman: 2:02

That is the most interesting description I've ever heard.

Patrick Kirby: 2:05

It is. And the reason I say that, and I say it with love and adoration and such a desire of just, I love this sector so much. But everyone who's in this role as a fundraiser or a nonprofit leader is an accidental fundraiser. No one gets no one no one goes to college for like annual giving one, like nobody does that. Nobody has a Bachelor of Arts degree in silent auction or fund and need you know raising.

Lyn Wineman: 2:35

Thank goodness, right? Can you imagine four years of silent auction preparation?

Patrick Kirby: 2:39

That would be the worst. If you thought four months was bad, four years of this is terrible. But everyone's an accidental fundraiser because someone along the line said, I love that you love our program. Thank you for being a part of our mission. We need to raise more money. And everybody goes, huh? And unless you've done it for a very long time, you just don't know what to do or how to get out of your own way. And we help nonprofits figure that out. I use the over two decades of experience I've been doing fundraising boots on the ground stuff to make life a little bit more simpler and a heck of a lot more fun. I guarantee it.

Lyn Wineman: 3:11

I love that. So, how did you stumble into this? I mean, I'm gonna assume you didn't have four years of silent auction training. How did you find your way into this space?

Patrick Kirby: 3:23

So I was a politics major in college, which means..

Lyn Wineman: 3:27

Politics? Well, there's some fundraising involved in that.

Patrick Kirby: 3:30

Oh, there is.But I, you know, that I got a degree and then I was immediately unemployed because they don't tell you that when you get your politics degree.

Lyn Wineman: 3:38

There aren't any entry-level politics jobs.

Patrick Kirby: 3:41

There really aren't that involve the skills for a 23-year-old. So I had the audacity to think I knew everything, and I immediately ran for office. I ran for the legislature in South Minneapolis. Well 63B against incumbent Dan Larson.

Lyn Wineman: 4:05

Oh my gosh. You didn't even start small, like you didn't start with like precinct manager or dog catcher council. You went for state legislature as a 23-year-old.

Patrick Kirby: 4:17

Yeah. Lyn, I had a degree in politics, so of course I was gonna go big. And I got my butt whipped. I mean, I it was awful. The only precinct I won was the cemetery, and I won by one vote. That's a true story. That's not even like that's not even a bit. That was true. So I lost, but I raised more money for the campaign than I was legally allowed to spend in a race. And yeah, so I we had a cap on how much money you could spend. I raised way more money than that. And I turns out to have a terrible politician, but I'm a really good fundraiser. And from there I went to my old high school. I did fundraising there. I went to the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, where I really cut my teeth with special events. I moved to Fargo because my wife's from here, and that's how I got to Fargo. And I was recruited out to work at the Ann Carlson Center, where which is this wonderful facility for individuals with developmental disability and delay. It was a house, a housing project. It was an accredited school, an acute hospital in the middle of nowhere, North Dakota, where I was their CDO for about a half a decade.

Lyn Wineman: 5:26

And CDO for those of us that aren't in fundraising, because we have some mission-driven listeners as well. Chief development officer.

Patrick Kirby: 5:34

You got it. Yeah. And during that time I got to mentor a lot of smaller nonprofits, and I fell in love with that light bulb moment. You know this. I know you know this, which is you you tell them something, you're coaching them up, and all of a sudden they have this aha, it's not as complicated as I was making it moment. And I was addicted. And I said, someday I'm gonna start my own business. But that's what someday came in 2017, where I, three months after having my youngest child, which is not a recommended way to start a business, by the way.

Lyn Wineman: 6:04

Amen.

Patrick Kirby: 6:04

I started doing it better, and I've been running with that thing for yeah, eight years. It's been really fun.

Lyn Wineman: 6:11

I have heard you, Patrick, talk about your wonderful wife. I started KidGlov three months before my oldest daughter went to college. Also, not advisable for your entrepreneurship journey, right? But I always think one of the partners has to be sane and stable and the other slightly unhinged. You and I are obviously the unhinged part of the equation, right?

Patrick Kirby: 6:34

It's why we get along so well. I feel like that is a part of the reason. So, yes, don't do this if you're an entrepreneur, but also probably do it because it forces you to actually do your best right away.

Lyn Wineman: 6:45

I love it. I love it. All right, Patrick, let's wind this back. You talk about making fundraising suck less. What are some of the common challenges you see nonprofits face as they go out to raise that all-important money?

Patrick Kirby: 7:00

If you are a fundraiser, if you're working as uh trying to raise money for everything, here are the things that are universal so you don't feel alone. Okay, because I'm sure everybody's trying to look for a solution like I must be the only person that's having troubles. Here are the things not enough donors. I don't know where to find donors. My board doesn't fundraise. I need my event to be refreshed. I must be the worst fundraiser in the world. Nobody calls me back. Like those are the things. I and everyone has these little moments of uh worry. And I would like to tell you that you're not alone. Everyone has these moments, everyone's trying to find new donors, everyone's trying to get their board to get off their rear end to do something, everyone is trying to refresh and become something interesting that people pay attention to and sort of filter to the top of a very crowded space in the nonprofit sector. Everyone is experiencing this. So, in order to diagnose a lot of what needs to be done, you need to pick one of those five. And usually one of them have it. And then we kind of go into all right, it's not as bad as you think. Number one, we have a solution for you. Number two, and you're gonna find the joy in fundraising after we are done chatting with you because I'm gonna be your cheerleader. I'm gonna be the one that you know kicks you in the butt, I'm gonna be wake you up and be more caffeinated than you are, be more excited than you are, and drag you kicking and screaming. Because we have this, we have this insatiable desire to do good work, but sometimes our batteries are low, someone our enthusiasm is waning, and my pride and joy is finding that little spark and then throwing a bunch of kindling on it and a bunch of logs so that you go out into the world and you're a more awesome fundraiser.

Lyn Wineman: 8:41

I feel like you're doing it right now, and I'm not even a professional fundraiser, but I'm feeling validated and sparked. So let's talk about that. Because I know and I've heard you talk before about how joy and creativity are essential to the success of fundraising. It seems a little obvious, but yet I don't want to leave anything on the table. Why is that?

Patrick Kirby: 9:04

Well, you know, I think at some point in time, someone has probably told you it's too much, you're too loud, you're too enthusiastic, you're too old, you're too brave, you're too audacious, something along that line because you're raising money for nothing in exchange but tickets to heaven.

Like you're trying to make the community a better place. That is as audacious of a thing that you can possibly do. That's a crazy talk. And somebody's going, like, hey, why don't you scale back a little bit? No, you don't be enthusiastic, uh, be passionate, bring joy to that, because donors want to feel that as well. They don't want to go into a meeting and and listen to somebody across and going, Lynn, um, I'd like us to talk a little bit about the gift and I want like nobody's gonna give you money to that. But people are gonna definitely give you if you sit next to them and almost paint them a picture to say, listen, we're gonna make our community better by this. And this is what your gift is gonna do. And I'm so excited to invite you to help us do it.

That's joyful, that's awesome, and that's passion. And I think we can lose that by getting told no a lot. We can lose that by not having a campaign go as well or an event go as well as we think. And then it's you hyper-personalize this that it must be me or I did something wrong. When you can't ever predict when someone gives, how much someone gives, but you can work on your field activity. You can change the world by just going out and having more meetings and telling your story and doing it enthusiastically, and that's controllable, but you're always worried about how do I get this number, how do I get this thing? And once you accomplish your goal, by the way, this is the thing that frustrates me the most, or frustrates a lot of nonprofit uh fundraisers, is that once you do an event or you accomplish your goal, there's always another one.

So I I try to tell everyone that I come in contact with is just take a deep breath, appreciate and realize what you have done. Make sure that you understand that your uh awesomeness and whatever money that you raised is going to make your community better, your mission actually happen. Acknowledge that, take a deep breath, pat yourself on the back, and then go out and raise more money because of that room.

Lyn Wineman: 11:09

I love it. Patrick, I feel like that's just kind of good advice for life, whether you're a fundraiser, whether you're an advertising professional, you know, great advice. But I think fundraisers maybe need it more than ever, and maybe now more than ever, because it feels like there's a lot of competition out there right now. Economy's a little shaky, government funding's going away. I mean, you gotta be propping people up quite a bit at this moment in time.

Patrick Kirby: 11:36

And I think people get maybe hesitant about raising money because of so many other worthy nonprofits in their community and say, well, I don't want to do this, they're already doing this, or I don't want to ask this as this donor because they already give, or I don't want to go and get that sponsorship because I know they're early. No, your mission is fund worthy. Number one, we are very worthy of this. And if you ever find yourself in a position where you're like, oh, I just I don't think it would be great. I maybe they aren't a good fit, or maybe that's not really the right time, and you're hemming and hawing about having a meeting or making an ask, I will remind you of a well, no, I'm gonna tell you. Reminding me, which is this horrifying experience that I had in a board meeting once where I was explaining why I wasn't going out and making enough or a number of asks with some of our former donors because they had already given to a campaign earlier. And a board member got up and she said to my face in front of everybody as I was explaining this. How dare you assume they don't want to give? And I was like, you're right, and I hate everything about that, right? We make assumptions about everybody. We make assumptions that because they give to a like aligned organization, they don't want to give to you. No, that means they want to give to you, they want to be better aligned with all of their giving. You're not stealing from another nonprofit, you're giving them another option to do the good that they're already trying to do in the community. You're just aligning them better. And as fundraisers, that's all our job is. Our job is just to align people and invite them to the table. And I think fundraisers are so stressed because they have to ask or sell. You don't. You have to tell a story, you have to ask questions, you have to be curious to see if it's something they would even consider. And once you get the vibe or they tell you straight up that they're interested, you just have to invite them to be a part of the solution, a part of the goal that you want to reach. And that's all fundraising is. And I want to simplify it for you.

Lyn Wineman: 13:40

Beautiful. I love it. Speaking of, I bet you simplify it in this book. The first time I met you, you were doing a keynote where you were talking about your book, one of my favorite titles, Fundraise Like a Fifth Grader. I mean, that in itself makes it feel like I'm a full-grown adult, I should be able to handle this. But tell us more about the book and what you want people to take away.

Patrick Kirby: 14:03

So I was watching my children come back from school and they had their annual fundraiser. And I was expecting this like I'm gonna have to buy pizzas or butter braids or whatever that's gonna be.

Lyn Wineman: 14:14

So they can get some trinkets, right?

Patrick Kirby: 14:15

Exactly. Instead, they decided to do a walk-a-thon at the school. There was no quid pro quo, you didn't have to sell anything. All they were gonna do is ask for money. And I was like, Finally, someone gets it. This is amazing. And my kids came home and they were so enthusiastic about it. They were so excited because they understood what they were trying to do. They wanted to raise money so that their classmates could go on every field trip, that their classmates, even if they couldn't afford lunch, would get their debt paid down. They were gonna buy snacks for their homeroom teachers, they were gonna buy like it became a mission-driven public school PTA fundraiser.

Lyn Wineman: 14:54

And they were no candles or wrapping paper or braided bread involved.

Patrick Kirby: 15:00

No, none. It was wonderful. So they came home and they ninja kicked their way out the door, and they went down the block and they randomly like knocked on doors and they just straight up asked for cash. And I'm watching this as a as a professional fundraiser going, is it that simple? It is. So I wrote the entire book based on the traits that I see in my kids every single day that we probably forgot as adults. And again, it's being absolutely audacious with your goals, it's being bold enough to ask for money, it's being curious to ask better questions, it's being honest and transparent. It's all these things that kids know that we as adults maybe skirted around. Or someone again, to my point earlier, told us that we were too much or too loud, or like you can't do that. And then we just as adults decided not to. So I'm bringing back the fifth grade mentality to make your fundraising life a little easier. And I wrote a whole book about it.

Lyn Wineman: 16:00

I love it. I remember from your talk, you talked about a rule of thumb about dogs and knowing somebody's dog. Can you tell us about the dog rule of thumb?

Patrick Kirby: 16:11

One of my one of my mentors told me once that you never ask for a major gift unless you know the name of your donor's dog. I love it. And that has stuck with me for 15 years. And the reason it is is that you are more concerned about them as a person than you are the size of their checking account. And if you have that perspective and they understand that, and you are really authentic about that, as I want to build relationships, I want to be friendly with these human beings, and you are genuinely curious about how they could be aligned and if they are, you're gonna make so much more money as a fundraiser. You are gonna be the people that go to, they're gonna tell your their friends about you because you make them feel like an actual human rather than an ATM. It’s so important, Lyn.

Lyn Wineman: 16:59

I love that so much. You know, Patrick, it makes me think of the advertising business that we're in here at KidGlov. You have to understand the target audience, you have to have empathy for them. And I think that's why people can recognize AI-generated creative because it's so boring and has so little empathy, right? And that's that understanding is so important.

Patrick Kirby: 17:25

Those AI robots are good writers, but my god, they have no soul. And they don't. And yeah, I don't think you know, a robot writing large language model is very helpful to brainstorm and maybe be a junior copyright editor. That's fine. But here's what it can't do it can't sit across the table from you and have a cup of coffee. It can't give a hug for someone who just had a loss of a loved one. It can't say thank you or write a really, really good thank you note. It doesn't think about sending people flowers when they are sad. It doesn't pick up the phone randomly because you drove past a billboard that reminds you of a donor or a partner or a community member. That's that's what fundraising is too. And Lyn, I know you know that because you're you're you're a brand, brilliant marketing brain, and know that that these things resonate with humans. And the more that we get down the road with AI and tech, the more people are gonna be desperate for authenticity.

Lyn Wineman: 18:27

Authenticity, I think so already. Every time, every time I get an email and I see those telltale AI signs, I lose a little bit of respect. And you can't raise money if people are leave losing respect and trust for you. All right, since you mentioned branding, I want to know about your brand. Do Good Better consulting. I mean, that sounds pretty fantastic. Tell me how you came up with that. 

Patrick Kirby: 18:52

When I started my business, I was trying to figure out a cool name, and everything I came up with sounded like a law firm. And I was like, this is gross. And I was chatting with somebody one day, and I and they were asking me about like what are you gonna do and how are you gonna start this? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know what to call it. I just know that all these groups do good in this world, and I just want to help them do better. I want to help them do good better. That's it. 

Lyn Wineman: 19:16

I love it, I love it. It very authentically explains what you do, why you do it, and what the impact is, and I love that so much. So, Patrick, this episode is airing in December of 2025. We're getting to the finish line of the end of year giving season. What's on the horizon for you and to Do Good Better Consulting?

Patrick Kirby: 19:41

Well, it is more about like I think about how do I get my small, medium-sized, nonprofit friends to uh believe that they can do great stuff. And so I'm kind of hell-bent on figuring that out in 2026. And whether it's a membership site or whether it is maybe writing another book, spoiler alert, writing another book.

Lyn Wineman: 20:02

Oh, you said you'd never write another book, but I knew. I knew.

Patrick Kirby: 20:06

I know you did. I think you called it out early. You're like, what is the third coming out? Yeah, well, but it's trying to figure out a way to make sure that everyone below knows and believes that they have a right to be at the table and that their missions are worthy. And it's probably not a great business model. I know it is. My accountant says that all the time, but it fulfills me in a way that I really I think figured out why I'm on this earth. And I think it's to do something along this line is to drag people, again, willingly or kicking and screaming, to believe in themselves that they are a worthy cause to raise as much money as possible because they're doing good work.

Lyn Wineman: 20:46

All right. So, Patrick, for people who want to drag themselves to your content, because I know you produce a lot of content, you've got a lot of great advice. How do they find you?

Patrick Kirby: 20:56

Dogoodbetterconsulting.com. It's an obnoxiously long, it's an obnoxiously long uh email site.

Lyn Wineman: 21:03

But it's exactly what it is. So I'm so glad you've got that URL. That's fantastic.

Patrick Kirby: 21:08

And everything you'll be able to find on there from blogs to podcasts to books to advice and contact information and everything in between, you got it right there.

Lyn Wineman: 21:17

Great. I am gonna give you a shout out here because you have one of the best weekly emails that I read. I actually read it and look forward to it. So for anybody out there in the fundraising or nonprofit space, sign up for Patrick's email. It's a good one. So you have dropped a lot of knowledge today and a lot of inspiration, but I do feel like I should ask for our nonprofits that are listening, and we have a lot of them. What is one piece of advice you'd give someone who's just feeling that sense of overwhelm?

Patrick Kirby: 21:51

So I came across a quote actually yesterday. If you're okay with me reading this, please because it because I, and again, it's on my phone. I took a screenshot of it that just because I've been thinking about this constantly. Yeah, it's a quote, it's a quote from Steve Jobs. It's most people never pick up the phone. Most people never ask. And that's what separates sometimes the people that do things from the people that just dream about them. You gotta act and you gotta be willing to fail. And I have this has been racking around in my brain for the last 24 hours about how we're coming up at the end of the year. You probably have a list of people that you might be hesitant to call, or maybe they already gave you money this year. If you do not pick up the phone and let them know that there's an opportunity for you to do good, to make a difference, you are leaving money on the table and you are not letting your donors be a part of the mission to the best of their ability. And if you don't pick up the phone, you're not gonna get money because no one has psychic powers enough to know that you're maybe excited about achieving your goal of raising money this year, or you need a little bit of extra. You have to tell them to pick up the phone.

Lyn Wineman: 23:17

Wow, mic drop. You want to know a funny coincidence, Patrick? I have that question written out here on my iPad. I almost didn't ask you. I almost didn't ask the question because I was like, Patrick's already given us so much advice. I'm not gonna ask this question. And you just proved the darn point, right? And because I'm from the Midwest, I have to say darn there. You just proved the darn point.

Patrick Kirby: 23:40

I like it. I like the I like the self-edit as much as anything else. Yes.

Lyn Wineman: 23:45

I love it. All right. So, Patrick, since you already gave me a Steve Jobs quote, I love Steve Jobs. I love a Patrick Kirby original quote to motivate our listeners. What do you have for us today?

Patrick Kirby: 23:59

So I am I'm gonna give you a quote, and it's something that I tell my kids all the time. We talked about the fifth grader thing, right?

Lyn Wineman: 24:08

Absolutely.

Patrick Kirby: 24:09

I I find that a lot of people seek uh answers to uh a lot of the fundraising questions, which is like, you know, why, you know, how can I get new donors? Well, go and speak a bunch of places. How do I make my event a little bit different? Well, be creative and go outside of the box and do all these things. Um, how do I get my board to fundraise? Well, tell them that the expectation is like all of those things. I you just know that you need to do that.

I would just, when you are listening to this podcast and you're listening to Lyn and you're reading her book and you're and you're getting all this information, you are at a crossroads and you still might not know what to do. And I will tell you uh exactly what I tell my kids is just freaking do it. If you have to, I tell them to do it for cleaning the room or just doing the dishes or taking the dog for a walk. Just freaking do it. You have to raise money, you have to go tell a story, you have to write that report, you have to go to a board meeting. Just freaking do it. And the hemming and hawing makes your makes your anxiety swell. It makes your whole life a little bit more hectic because you're just sitting on it and you don't know if it's gonna go well or not because you don't want to make a mistake, no one cares. Yeah, no one is thinking about you as much as you think they're thinking about you. It's okay and no one's gonna get mad and punch you in the face for asking for money. At no point in time is that gonna happen. Just freaking do it.

Lyn Wineman: 25:44

I love it. I can remember that one. You know, I have a friend who calls that that sense of dread, that sense of exhaustion you get when you worry about something. She calls it an energy leak, right? Like that sense of worry, that's an energy leak. I love it. That is so good, Patrick. Thank you for that. I want you to know I am inspired. I am sure our listeners are inspired. My last question for you today, as we wrap up this fantastic conversation, what is the most important thing you would like our listeners to remember about the work that you're doing?

Patrick Kirby: 26:19

Of what I'm doing?

Lyn Wineman: 26:21

Of what you're doing, yeah.

Patrick Kirby: 26:23

Here's what I would like. I would like to, I will, I'm gonna do a reverse Uno card on those who are listening, right? Okay, okay. And not that I want to brag, I I love bragging, it makes me feel really good. But here's what I'd like your listeners to remember is that you're doing great. I don't think you probably don't get told that enough because it's always another thing and you've got another thing to do, you're bored, and it's always a another you don't take time for yourself to give yourself a pat on the back. You don't take time to pause and acknowledge the how far you have come because you're just in the thick of it. I know you are, it's end of the year, you're chaos driven. You're doing great, and no one else is out there doing your work, and no one else has a great story the way that you tell it. And there are people and don't there are people who rely on you and your pro and your and your services and the things you're doing, and it's okay, you're doing great.

Lyn Wineman: 27:20

Uh, Patrick, I'm gonna wrap this conversation up by putting a reverse Uno card on your reverse Uno card. And I'm gonna say I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more firms like Do Good Better Consulting. And I really, really appreciate you taking time for this today.

Patrick Kirby: 27:38

You're wonderful. Thanks for even inviting me. I have a blast, and you know I love your face. So I was honored to say yes enthusiastically to come on. Thank you for what you do. Thanks for giving people um another place to go learn and just continue to do good better.

Lyn Wineman: 27:55

Uh thanks, Patrick. That's a wrap.

Announcer: 27:59

We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a change maker you'd love to hear from, visit kidglov.com at kidglov.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you've heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.