Agency for Change : A Podcast from KidGlov

Changemaker Alex Wagner, Director Of Strategic Initiatives, Magnitude of Change

• KidGlov • Season 1 • Episode 269

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What happens when technology, media, and purpose collide? We sit down with Alex Wagner, Director of Strategic Initiatives at Magnitude of Change, to explore how a research-led, values-driven media consultancy turns attention into action for public health and social impact. From the early pandemic days supporting the California Department of Public Health to statewide work on the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, Alex reveals how data, empathy, and behavior science come together to reach people at the right time and place.

We dig into the mechanics of meaningful campaigns—paid search and social tuned for help-seeking, streaming audio and CTV built for trust, and digital out-of-home that meets people in their daily paths. We also talk about the rigor behind the work: qualitative and quantitative research, community-informed creative, and the governance standards that come with certified B Corp status and membership in 1% for the Planet. 

Welcome to the Agency for Change podcast.

Connect with Alex and Magnitude of Change at: 

·       Email Alex – alex.wagner@magnitudeofchange.com

·       Website – https://www.magnitudeofchange.com/

Connect with Alex and Magnitude of Change at: 

·       Email Alex – alex.wagner@magnitudeofchange.com

·       Website – https://www.magnitudeofchange.com/

Alex Wagner: 0:01

Never lose your imagination. It leads to transformation and liberation.

Announcer: 0:11

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of change makers who are actively working to improve our community. In every episode, we'll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call homes.

Lyn Wineman: 0:35

Welcome back to the Agency for Change podcast. This is Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist of KidGlov. So let me start with a question today. What happens when technology, media, and purpose collide? The answer is that you get innovation that doesn't just capture attention, it sparks real and lasting change. So today on the podcast, we are talking with Alex Wagner, Director of Strategic Initiatives at Magnitude of Change. I love that brand name. They are a certified B Corp and a proud member of 1% for the Planet. So from nationwide campaigns to local initiatives, Alex is helping organizations use advanced technology and creative strategies to inspire positive disruption and measurable impact. So buckle up, we're diving into how bold ideas can truly change the world. Alex, welcome to the podcast.

Alex Wagner: 1:38

Lyn, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

Lyn Wineman: 1:41

Absolutely. I always love talking to you, and I am really interested today into diving in a bit deeper on Magnitude of Change and on your background. But let's even start by having you tell us more about Magnitude of Change and the work that you're doing.

Alex Wagner: 2:00

Sure, of course. So a little bit about Magnitude of Change. We've been around for about five and a half years.

Lyn Wineman: 2:07

So you're a relatively new company.

Alex Wagner: 2:09

Yeah, we're a new kid on the block, especially for this space of social impact and you know, government work, behavior change. We're definitely a younger sprout, so to speak, in the garden.

Lyn Wineman: 2:20

I love that.

Alex Wagner: 2:21

We're quite jubilant, enthusiastic, and you know, happy to be here. So in the last five and a half years, we actually started our first client was the California Department of Public Health. And what happened there was there was just an enormous need from social impact firms and behavior change firms, of which just didn't have the digital media teams to really meet the moment or some of the calls. They're buckling under the pressure and weight because COVID was such a huge initiative, especially in California. And so we were born. And what Magnitude of Change is regarded as is we're a digital media consultancy. So we help in sort of three kinds of measures. Our core competency and what we've had the pleasure of helping with from 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline in multiple states to anti-opioid initiatives from New Hampshire down to Louisiana and Colorado. It's digital media execution. So that's helping folks really take a behavior change approach through science, through research, to things like paid search, paid social, your streaming television, your streaming radio or digital billboards. It's approaching that space. And instead of treating it like selling shoes, it's understanding truly what behavior change means, how to be responsive, how to influence meaningful outcomes in our communities. So the second prong to us, so digital media execution is the core competency, research is our second arm. And that is quantitative research, quantitative focus groups, surveys, secondary research, media consumption data. We leverage all of these things to make sure, again, because we can't imagine, and you know, neither of us can imagine being in the shoes of some of these folks, right? We will never know. We'll never truly know what it means to be perhaps like an L Tenex population in a highly low-income neighborhood. It's just a different walk of life. But you can do your best to arm yourself with research, with listening, with empathy, with understanding, and then build something responsive to that, right? It's so the research and insights for us is paramount because without that, we wouldn't have a clue who we're really talking to.

And the best way would be to talk to them. So the last piece of us being a consultancy is we work with our partners on public sector bids, on coalition builds, endeavors of which require a lot more than just putting together a media plan. It requires strategy, it requires synthesizing data and copy and just all this stuff as such a heavy lift on people. We do that as well to ensure, again, that everything is putting the best foot forward and that we're better together and we're not working alone in silos.

Lyn Wineman: 5:35

I love it. Just to make sure people remember what you're saying, I want to recount back to you how many times you have referenced shoes, walking, and feet, right? Which I think something is interesting there. You said when we looked at your digital media, that core competency. This is different. Social impact, public health, creating change is different than selling shoes, right? We all can think about how do we want to buy shoes, but this is different than that. And I'm so glad you said that. It's a really special, I think, skill set and talent and base of information. And as you talked about your research category, we talked about putting yourself in somebody else's shoes because we are trying to impact behavior change with this work. And once again, that is changing someone's behavior is very different than getting them to walk into a retailer to purchase something. And then the third thing you said is we want to really understand the walk of life of somebody who does this, and finally we want to put our best foot forward as we talked about your partners and strategies. So I just thought that was fun to recount that back to you as we went through it, because I think those all were such nice examples as we went through your different services. And so, my next question then, and you started to answer this, but I don't want to leave anything on the table here. Why is the mission of using technology and media to drive this purposeful behavior change so important? And why is it so important right now?

Alex Wagner: 7:19

Great question. Why it's so important? I'd like to answer that somewhat with just saying in the age of information, there's so much, there's so much noise. There's so much disinformation. There's so much being thrown at us every day to where in our busy, like just being again, putting ourselves in the position of somebody perhaps who likely has depression, they're sitting in Baltimore County, their hands are over their head, they're frustrated, they feel isolated, they feel alone, and they're just barraged with more and more information, and just being stuck in a place where they don't feel heard, they don't feel understood, they don't feel seen. So we have to cut through the noise.

You have to cut through all the noise of the digital age in order to deliver a help, a helping hand to somebody, to say heads in the hand instead of extending a helping hand, right? And that's what makes this so important is that we can have this bridge to people to meet them where they are at the right time, in the right place, where otherwise you're just missing the opportunity. You're really missing the opportunity to touch, touch them and affect them. I'd say why it's important right now, and especially right now, is it only gets harder.

It only gets tougher in a time like especially when the seas are changing, you have lots of change. Like I was talking to somebody, a few people recently, where I had listened to an interview as a certain political event happened in the last couple of weeks that entailed violence here in the United States. There was a highly popularized shooting of a relatively well-known individual. And somebody in this interview, it was the person of whom was debating with the person right when they got shot, and who had the last words to this person.

Lyn Wineman: 9:33

You just gave me chills there. As I'm, I mean, because I think we all know this situation, and I I appreciate the fact that you're handling it so delicately because that is appropriate. It's an inflammatory and devastating situation. But yes.

Alex Wagner: 9:50

And so that person, when they were being interviewed, said that we're living in overall one of the least violent times on the planet. And I thoroughly disagree. I thoroughly disagree because for every violent action, for every violent thought, for every atrocity, for every difficulty and challenge is exacerbated and amplified because we're connected digitally now. So the impact of one event on the other side of the planet will impact 300 million people on the other pool. So one thing that affects one person affects all of us. That's the it's kind of like interconnectivity, right? So it's important for us to now more than ever to be addressing the issues that our peers, our partners, our, you know, everybody faces. Because if we can help prevent things, if we can help remediate things, if we can help people live better lives, that means everybody's going to be living a better life.

Lyn Wineman: 10:55

Yeah, yeah. I I like the fact that you brought up both the negative side and the positive side of that. Every action, negative or positive, is amplified to the nth degree over and over and over again. So, Alex, as we think about this work that you're doing and the impact of the work, I'd like to even bring it home further. Can you think of a particular campaign or initiative that really illustrates the impact of the work that you do and the difference that you can make with this work?

Alex Wagner: 11:31

Yeah, so that's again, really great question. And I appreciate that you asked. So, one of the ones that comes to mind that I had mentioned was 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. So that's one where we've had the pleasure of working on in multiple states, but I really appreciated what I saw from, I'm just gonna say, from one portion of a campaign for behavioral health system Baltimore. Our work, and it was in a span of it's just in the first half of the campaign, so it was about six months. We helped record or drive over 28,500 sessions for 988's website. Wow. And achieved it achieved more than 400 clicks to call. So meaning there was a digital campaign going on for a phone hotline, and we're able to drive lots and lots of people to this brand new number. It's the first three-digit number to be introduced in quite some time that they had never known.

This spanned over 27 million impressions, so a large-scale campaign. And what was being had here was that we were bringing people to a website with tips of how to find and discover calm in a time of much needed emotional support. And this is with a partner who we've done extensive work with, and it's been incredible work. But just having that and knowing it's not just an awareness, it was seeing that with everything, every tactic we were doing, that truly somebody was finding the help they need that they didn't know they could have before, that they didn't know they could access. And that that campaign, especially for me personally, was meant so much. I around the time of the pandemic, I volunteered 200 hours with crisis text line.

Yeah, it was over, it was like you did four hours or so a week for 52 weeks. They like really, they really had you stretch it out, but it gave me an insight to the inner workings of just what it is to be a part of these helplines and call lines and just the gravity and nature of some of them. Some of them were quite trivial, some of them very heavy.

And being a part of that solution means the world. And I think that's funny. It's like you can admit it, there's a little bit egoic. It's just like you get to pat yourself on the back.

Lyn Wineman: 14:16

It's okay to love your work, and it's okay to be happy. You use the words I think jubilant and energetic. It's okay to be jubilant and energetic about making the world a better place.

Alex Wagner: 14:27

Yeah, it feels good. You give yourself that pat on the back, you get that oxytocin, you know, you get that little boost, and you're like, Yeah, like I did that. That was great.

So that's some yeah, that's uh, I feel like a really good example of some of the work we've done is like 988's just been such a cool initiative to be a part of.

Lyn Wineman: 14:44

I think it's an excellent example because once again, to take this back to the shoes, you know, yeah, there's nothing wrong with selling shoes, buying shoes. Shoes are fabulous. I have a lot of them. But to think about having people call this helpline, you know, there's a potentially a lot of life-changing, I'm sure even some life-saving conversations happening out of that. And I love that you are bringing more of that to the world. So along those lines, in addition to the impactful work that you do, one of the things I appreciate about Magnitude of Change is you're both a certified B Corp and you're a member of 1% for the Planet. And so tell me how, and you know, it's a little bit obvious, but I want you to tell me, tell me how this alignment is important for your organization.

Alex Wagner: 15:46

This alignment is important for the organization. I mean, this this one, and great question, by the way. I can answer it pretty succinctly, is practicing what you preach from the inside out. So just we talked about creating better outcomes for our communities, especially being on the digital end. So we work extensively on optimizing our campaigns to be the most energy efficient that they can be, which is something that not everybody's thinking about all the time. We have partners, we've put in place tons of different tactics to ensure that we mitigate as much environmental impact as we possibly can. Because digital advertising, it is polluting. I mean, nothing to I'd have to say, the rise of artificial intelligence is creating a whole ‘nother scale of what it means to be expensive on our earth when it comes to technology. But we're a part of that, without a doubt, because we also do use AI algorithms. We're we're not as big as your open AI or some of this other stuff, but we're still impacting the earth. So it's really important to be a part of 1% for the Planet, to be donating revenue back into those doing good for our planet, and to be really just it's our pledge as we do as much as we can internally to kind of set a new standard, just what everybody in our space should be doing anyway. Right. Like just practicing what you preach again. And then certified B Corp is the same thing. How are you treating your stakeholders? How are the employees? How are you practicing your business? What is governance like? What are you judging? How are you judging your business? Are you judging it on how much money you're making, or are you judging it on the impact that you make? And I think that's what I really like about the business impact model with B Corp is it makes you really put your head down and say, what's the most important KPI, key performance of our business? Is it giant revenue strides smashing ceilings of you know good old capitalism? Or is it wow, we pushed it, we elevated it that much more. How many communities were impacting?

Lyn Wineman: 18:00

Absolutely. Alex, I've been on record talking about how rigorous the B Corp assessment can be, right? Like it's intense, it's not one of those things that most companies just phone in. And I feel like for Magnitude of Change, it's kind of baked into your ethos, but some of us started at a time when we didn't think about those things as much. But for me, when KidGlov went through the B Corp process, we didn't just do it to get the certification. We became a better company because we became thoughtful. And there's always that saying, what gets measured gets done, right? And so knowing that we're being measured and that we need to recertify to live up to these standards continuously makes you a thoughtful leader as to making those decisions as well. So one thing too, I wanted to ask you about Alex. You have one of my favorite brand names. And being a firm that does a lot of branding, including some public health branding, I'm really curious how you came about that name, Magnitude of Change and what it really means to you.

Alex Wagner: 19:15

So the co-founders, one of the co-founders, it was a it's a measurement within public health. So it's a measurement of you know the gravity and the impact and the shift that is taking place and something. And that it just hit it was like a kind of like an aha. Like, of course, like that makes sense. How are we measured? We're measured by Magnitude of Change. And that's what it means for me. And as I look at it, and it's like I kind of think about earthquakes. 

It's a little aggressive, but I'm like, hey, come on, are we in a 7.3 or 9.8? Like, what are we doing here?

Lyn Wineman: 20:01

If you're only at 3.2, what's the point of even getting up in the morning, right?

Alex Wagner: 20:06

Yeah, come on. Like, let's be in Mount St. Helens, you know. Let's, I guess, change half of the hemisphere. But anyway, it's the that's something I always appreciate as I just think about it's like, hey, the gravity of change. What are you doing? What's the impact? What's how does it radiate? How does it spike? How does it move? That's that's what it means to me. And it feels good to have, it also means like wearing your heart on your sleeve to me. Because everything from the beginning to the end is very transparent, again, from the rigorous standards that we hold ourselves to, certified B Corporation, you pretty much show your insights out. You do, and that's what it is. Magnitude of change to me means heart on our sleeves.

Lyn Wineman: 20:50

Beautiful. I love it. I love it. So, what's a day in the life of Alex Wagner look like as the director of strategic initiatives for Magnitude of Change?

Alex Wagner: 21:03

Hmm. What is a day in the life for Alex of Magnitude of Change? So day in the life for me these days, towards the beginning, I was, I kind of would call myself a little bit of a hat rack because I was in a lot of different places, you know, listening in, trying to help where I could, be it from helping, you know, form the identity on the website to working with subject matter experts on what our behavior change framework and methodology was to just anywhere that I could be of service, I was. I've been here since day one. So I'm you know one of the first employees. Technically, yeah, I'm the first employee.

Lyn Wineman: 21:42

Wow, number one, employee number one.

Alex Wagner: 21:45

Yeah, employee number one of Magnitude of Change. So it's yeah, started as a hat rack. And then these days I sit more in a business development position. So I work with our partners on coalition builds. I work with them on public sector bids and RFPs, just creating those threads and hopefully connecting the right people so then we can see out change the best that we can. So that's that um it's a lot of emails, a lot of press and keyboard buttons. Too many, way too many Slack messages.

Lyn Wineman: 22:22

I hear you there. That's just the way we communicate right now. So, and it allows you to work across the country and areas like Baltimore and all the places that need you, and I and I think that's really important too. So, so what's on the horizon for both you and Magnitude of Change?

Alex Wagner: 22:42

Well, one thing I was gonna say, and actually something you know about the day in the life and how much we're inundated with information. So kind of pulled it off in the last month and I've really settled into it. If you look at my phone time, so how much my phone is used each day, I've kept it under an hour.

And then because I just in the morning I wake up, don't touch the phone. Well, I mean, my alarm goes off, so I smash the stop button, but then I don't touch it. It sits in the room a whole day. I don't really go to my phone to use it to communicate with anyone until the nighttime.

Lyn Wineman: 23:19

Wow, that's uh that's a feat. Like I have to admit, for my own mental health, I've really worked on, you know, leaving that phone to the side and getting up, getting my coffee, getting my day set, doing a little meditation, but I I'm on my phone within an hour of waking up. So that that's quite a feat, yeah.

Alex Wagner: 23:41

Yeah, I had to do it. And like, because you can do I can do my sales calls, my work calls, etc., through the computer, right? Like you can make a lot of calls through your computer, so I don't need to go over to it. I just like I didn't want to be continually calmed those loops because when you have your phone, you just flip it over for no random, you know, just for a complete random reason, and you check your email. I'm like, why am I checking my email on a Saturday?

Lyn Wineman: 24:06

It's a dopamine hit, yes.

Alex Wagner: 24:08

Yeah, it's like I was just chained to it. I really was, I was completely within its grips, and so I haven't been on social media in like three weeks or three and a half weeks, just pretty much took myself off of that. Phone times less than an hour, and I feel so much more present and able to take on larger challenges. I think one of the, there's a lot of questions around it from ethics to environmental impact to everything else, but we do have to ask the question of what does artificial intelligence mean for our business? So it's been a lot of stakeholder meetings internally of Magnitude of Change. It's like, what if what is our stance? How do we use it equitably? How do we use it in cognizance? How do we balance that? How do you balance the use with environmental?

Lyn Wineman: 25:00

Oh, yeah, and human, I think human impact too.

Alex Wagner: 25:04

Yeah, and that's I think I kind of look too and I'd be intrigued by what future B Corp conferences or gatherings, I would love to hear more of what people are thinking about that and what B Corp overall thinks about it, because it's just kind of inevitable now. What folks are expecting, what end clients need. Government agencies now are starting to ask, how are you using it? Are you using it? Like, are you on the cutting edge or are you kind of yourself behind? So I've been really working on how can it make life a bit easier, I'd say. Just how it can connect dots, how it can simplify things, so then folks in the company like myself can focus on higher level functions, more you know, functions of creativity, of strategy, of making sure we're moving forward in a good way. So that's one of the things on the horizon, I think, for at Magnitude of Change. In general, too, it's just coalition building is a newer avenue for us. It's been very exciting, and I think it's beginning to work more with our partners and other nonprofits and community stakeholders to start things from the ground up. I heard something to the accord of this is another thing I'll say with delicacy. So I was talking to a firm in Canada, and they were saying from the outside looking in, if certain parts of government aren't serving you, then society has to step up. That was more or less what they said. And that's where things like coalition building comes into play. I think what for whatever you believe, if there's something out there that you feel like isn't being served in a particular way, you can sit and you can think about it. I believe there's a line in a Coldplay song that I really like. It's from Moon Music, it's the first song off of it. And he more or less he's he says a line sitting, yelling at the TV. It's like sit, you can be a bystander, you can just kind of yell at it, or you can get your hands dirty and try to do something from the ground up.

Lyn Wineman: 27:28

Right. I have a friend who calls that slactivism, right? Like, I feel like an activist, but my anger, my actions aren't really doing anything at all.

Alex Wagner: 27:39

Yeah. So we can slack messages, but you don't want a slacktivist too much. For me, what's but me personally, what's on my roadmap is just really trying to get my phone time down to 30 minutes a day.

Lyn Wineman: 27:54

Impressive. I'm gonna check in with you on that. That's so impressive.

Alex Wagner: 27:59

My personal endeavors used to always be to just, I'd have to say, just throw off my nervous system extensively. And I think that's a part of like the mentality of the culture we live in in the greater United States as a whole, is like every waking second must be to pursuing some great thing. Monetizing your crochet, monetizing your, you know, just anything.

Lyn Wineman: 28:25

Because you can monetize anything at this moment in time. You got teenagers in their rooms selling stuff, yeah.

Alex Wagner: 28:33

Yes, exactly. I I was listening to my boss, and he was talking about how his kids are hustling on this Roblox game, or they've like made side hustles in this virtual world, and they're like 11. And it's like, I'm just like, this is crazy, you know. So I really have put myself to task on a calm nervous system being my biggest goal at this time and what's on the horizon. Now, six months from now, a year from now, I might get involved in more community work in my spare time and other things. I've been very involved in community work for the majority of my life, but it's a kind of a break right now. Put all the energy, you know, Magnitude of Changes where I'll kind of punch it and then I yeah, just try to unwind.

Lyn Wineman: 29:24

So I get that vibe from you. I get that calm vibe from you, Alex. So I think it's working. I think it's working, and I appreciate that. Yeah, I do appreciate it. I I do want to ask though, I feel like it would be a mistake if I had you on here, a change expert, and I didn't ask you because I know listeners of this podcast are very socially aware, they want to make a difference in the world. What advice would you give someone who wants to create purposeful change in their own community?

Alex Wagner: 30:00

What advice would I give someone who wants to create purposeful change around them in the community? I'd I think a great first step is specifying the what, the who, the what, the why.

I think we can look around and in paralysis and shame and guilt and self-criticism, just get overwhelmed by how many things there are in our community that we're like, I want to help this, I want to help that, I'm not helping anything, ah, you know, yeah. Is simplifying it down to one thing and then looking for a meetup, looking at Reddit, looking at other forms of community forms, and taking that really uncomfortable step of you know, going to that first day in the park cleanup event, yeah, seeing who you meet, going to what might sound completely unsexy and fun and not cool, but going to your town hall. It's actually pretty cool to hear about what's happening at the directly impact you and listen and be a sponge. And maybe again getting uncomfortable and shaking somebody's hand. I think it's so those are the first two steps. One is being comfortable with getting uncomfortable, but that is preceded by the who, the what, the why. Just choosing one thing. And I think through that focus and that groundedness in something, grounded and assured, and like, okay, I care about this, I want to change this, this one thing, and not hold ourselves to judgment again. It's so much like there's so much kindness that you have to keep with yourself in this and like compassion you must have with yourself to say, okay, hey, you didn't change the world today, you did great today. Like you every because every little action, if we all just take these little actions, little actions multiply again. The theme of amplification of things, right? If each of us just took that one step once a quarter, once every six months, once a year. If we took one step towards purpose, you've done a great job. Yeah, like we don't you don't have to change the rotation of the moon, you don't have to change the constellations. You can pick a few weeds from the neighborhood garden. And that's great.

Lyn Wineman: 32:56

Yeah. You know what strikes me about what you just said is earlier today I was in a meeting with a prevention specialist, and she was talking about the detriment of a scarcity mindset and how, you know, when families that are in crisis get into a scarcity mindset, they have a tendency to freeze up a bit, and then their mind isn't open to solutions. And I think the same maybe could be said for change. Like when I heard you say, you know, it's easy to get really frustrated about all the things you would like to change. And in a way, that is, even though there's an abundance of things you'd like to change, it's a bit of a scarcity mindset in that there's more than I can do. So I'm gonna let myself get overwhelmed. And so what I hear you saying is really get in touch with the things that you want to change, the who, the what, the why. Recognize that you're gonna have to get a bit uncomfortable to get in there and do the work, but then also give yourself some grace as you're doing the work. You're not going to make the whole change overnight, but over time it's going to make a difference. So I do really appreciate that advice, Alex. For our listeners who are really intrigued with this conversation, who want to get a hold of Magnitude of Change, how do they find you?

Alex Wagner: 34:33

Well, my I would say if you see my email signature, there's everything in there. If anybody, if anybody is curious, and that's what I say to folks, it's like, I'm like, you can call me, you can text me, you can email, like ask me an AMA, in the words of Reddit. I am an ask me anything. So for anybody out there who's curious, you can write me personally. So my email is Alex A-L-E-X.wagner, W A G N E R at magnitudeofchange.com. We also, though, if you don't want to write me and just want our write our generic line, our email is also on the website, magnitudeofchange.com. But that word will get to me. So you'll end up talking to me.

Lyn Wineman: 35:20

There's no way to get around you.

Alex Wagner: 35:22

There's no way to escape.

Lyn Wineman: 35:24

Employee number one, Magnitude of Change. I just want to write. We will get that email. We will get both that email and the website link in the show notes. All right, Alex, I'm gonna ask you my favorite question. All the listeners know this is my favorite question. Could you give us a few of your own words of wisdom to inspire our listeners?

Alex Wagner: 35:47

Let's go with never lose your imagination. It leads to transformation and liberation.

Lyn Wineman: 35:58

Wow. All right, let me see if I can get this back to you. Never lose your imagination. It leads to transformation and liberation. I like it. I like it.

Alex Wagner: 36:11

Never forget the child, never forget the kid. We're we're five-year-olds, and now for me anyway, a mid-30s flesh suit. It's just like forever keep that kid, forever keep the curiosity, forever keep the wide eyes, if you will, because same thing, scarcity mindset, the pessimistic mindset. There's so much beauty in the world, just as much as there is problems. And I think to encourage play, to encourage possibility, imagination is what helps us see so many different paths towards an outcome that you want to see in the world. Encourage imagination as much as possible.

Lyn Wineman: 36:57

I think you just gave us a second quote there. You gave us two for one. So I appreciate that, Alex. I have so loved this conversation. As we do wrap up our time together today, let's end with what is the most important thing you would like our listeners to remember about the work that you're doing?

Alex Wagner: 37:18

What's the most important thing to remember about the work that we're doing? Remeber that Magnitude of Change is here to help you reach your audience at the right time and the right place when they need to hear of you most.

Lyn Wineman: 37:34

I love that. That's fantastic. Alex, I've loved this conversation. I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more organizations like Magnitude of Change. Thank you for taking time to share with us today.

Alex Wagner: 37:50

Thank you so much. I hope you have a great rest of your day. And everyone, you too.

Announcer: 38:00

We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a change maker you'd love to hear from, visit kidglov.com at kidglov.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you've heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.