Agency for Change : A Podcast from KidGlov

Changemaker Anne Wintemute, CEO, Aimee Says

• KidGlov • Season 1 • Episode 262

Share episode

What if a survivor of relationship abuse could turn chaos into clarity before ever stepping into a lawyer’s office or a courtroom? We sit down with Anne Wintemute, Co-Founder and CEO of Aimee Says, to explore how a trauma-informed AI companion helps people impacted by relationship abuse feel seen, be believed, and prepare credible evidence that systems can act on. 

We dig into how Aimee works in practice: transforming scattered memories into structured timelines, matching lived experiences with statutes, and producing clear statements that reduce the burden on someone already exhausted by fear and logistics. The takeaway is simple and powerful: when research, advocacy, and evidence standards meet survivors where they are—on their phones, at their pace—access to justice becomes more attainable.

If you’re a friend, colleague, or leader who wants to help, keep your door open, share resources like AimeeSays.com, and listen without judgment.

Connect with Anne and Aimee Says at: 

·       Website – www.aimeesays.com

Connect with Anne and Aimee Says at: 

·       Website – https://www.aimeesays.com

Anne: 0:01

Your story isn't over yet. 

Announcer: 0:03

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of changemakers who are actively working to improve our community. In every episode, we'll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call home.

Lyn: 0:28

Hello and welcome back to the Agency for Change podcast. This is Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist at KidGlov. Today, our guest is Anne Wintemute, someone who is reimagining how technology can serve humanity. Boy, I love that. She is the Co-founder and CEO of Aimee Says, where she's harnessing AI to support survivors of relationship abuse, to amplify their voices, and create new opportunities for access to justice. Anne, welcome to the podcast. 

Anne: 1:12

Thank you so much, Lyn. I'm really excited to be here. 

Lyn: 1:15

I am excited to hear all about what you're doing. And I'd love to start by having you tell us more about Aimee says and how it came to be.

Anne: 1:23

Yes, absolutely. Aimee is an AI companion and system of support for anyone who's been impacted by any form of relationship abuse. And she came to be because I was working directly with women who were experiencing post-separation abuse. They'd ended the abusive relationship. They thought that things would get better. That's certainly what we tell victims. And it turned out that the abuse just continued. In my work with them, realizing how many opportunities for early intervention there might’ve been and how many times they needed support before we ever got in touch and how limited my human ability was, that’s why Aimee exists so we can provide, you know, in your pocket expertise, support, documentation, all of it for anyone who's been impacted.

Lyn: 2:14

And I love how you have personified Aimee, right? Like I love that you speak of the app, the company. I love that you speak of it as a person because in branding, we so often say, you know, your brand needs to have a personality. And you really have designed something that is a companion here. Have you always referred to Aimee Says in that way, or is this a new evolution?

Anne: 2:44

Aimee has from conception has always been under that companion umbrella, if you will, that constantly available, trauma-informed, ready to support you, friend. I don't think there's ever been a time where Aimee didn't have like a human form in my mind. And we know that you know the 35,000 users see her that way too. That she's like having a best friend who understands.

Lyn: 3:10

I love it. And who is trauma informed because I know sometimes, just as a mere human, sometimes people will ask me for advice and I will go, I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that. Or here's my answer, but take it as a grain of salt. But you have really trained Aimee to really be prepared for this specific situation, haven't you?

Anne: 3:36

Absolutely true. But if you ask her to predict a sports score, you know, you, Lyn Wineman, might be better at answering my question. I know that I I certainly could only take a stab at it, but yes, Aimee is trained in this particular area of study, of expertise, of content, of human experience, which is why she feels so personable to folks who've experienced abuse.

Lyn: 4:01

So Anne, tell me why is the work that you are doing with survivors and the use of AI support so important? 

Anne: 4:11

Scale. You know, the number one is scale. And then the second is the kind of the prerequisite that if someone engages victim services that they identify as a victim of domestic violence. So we'll talk with scale first. It's you know the 10 million people will be victimized by domestic violence in the United States this year alone. And to give a little bit of context, globally the diagnosis rate for breast cancer is four million.

Lyn: 4:38

And we talk about breast cancer all the time. We have walks, we have ribbons, we have all the things. I had no idea the disparity in numbers there.

Anne: 4:52

Absolutely. The scale is off the charts. Um, you know, one in three women, uh, you know, one in four men will experience some form of intimate partner violence. Unfortunately, women tend to experience much more severe forms of physical violence, certainly around lethality risk, and also much higher rates of coercive control, which is a long-standing pattern of uh abusive behaviors that are intended to dominate the victim. So if you have 10 million of these people a year. And, you know, so I can I can name one in three, right, of a of a circle of friends, but I until I got into this field, I couldn't name a whole lot of domestic violence advocates. You know, it's a very small kind of layperson-esque field that's populated by um incredible people doing really hard work, but they have very limited time that they can offer, scope of service that they can offer. And then we get to disclosure. Uh it can take a lot, like a lot, a lot, like being hospitalized multiple times for someone to start to recognize that they are a victim of domestic violence. We kind of all keep ourselves cozy at night, thinking it could never happen to us. And that, if I had to give you the leading risk factor for becoming a domestic violence or an intimate partner violence or narcissistic abuse victim, whatever, it is the belief that it can't happen to you. And it really delays people recognizing that they have a problem, that they deserve support. So unfortunately, by the time folks access those systems, the ability to prevent harm is the window's mostly shut.

Lyn: 6:28

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think too, as I hear you saying these numbers, one in three women, one in four men. And I think about my circle of friends, and I'm like, well, that statistic doesn't hold true for my friends, but I bet I just don't know, right? It's not the thing that comes up all the time in, you know, coffee conversations, right?

Anne: 6:53

Right. And there's so much stigma. So that stigma keeps people from recognizing their own experiences, certainly keeps them from sharing those experiences. But I'll tell you what, you know, I interact with a lot of folks throughout the course of my work where my job is not dealing or addressing them as their, you know, as a survivor and their needs as a survivor. It's booking a conference, it's doing this, it's, you know, scheduling something and ask what you do. I cannot tell you how frequently, gosh, talking to investors, even talking to investors. I cannot tell you how frequently the, hey, can I just like talk to you for another moment? You know, I was a child victim in a home. You know, my father was abusive to my mother, or when I was in college, I was in this extremely abusive relationship and I just felt like never, no one ever understood me. It is, if you open that door, you will be really shocked and saddened by how many people walk through it. As a culture, we don't leave that door open for people to talk, to share their experience.

Lyn: 7:53

Right, right. Well, I've always thought, and you'll have to tell me whether this is true or not, but I've always believed that survivors face barriers being heard and or believed. And A, is that true? I'm gonna guess you'll say yes. And B, if it is true, how does Aimee Says help amplify their voices?

Anne: 8:18

Yes, barriers upon barriers. There are barriers within our family systems. Well, you should just stay with them. You made this commitment. There's barriers within our community, and then you know it continues. Those barriers stack up as the circle widens, and we get to systems, right? Yeah, systems barriers. I called the police. They arrested me, not him, because he said that I started.

Lyn: 8:38

Oh goodness, I've heard that. I actually never heard that story before. I was the one who got arrested. I've I have heard that story now that you mention it, and that's such a hard one because it's like, oh my goodness, how does that happen?

Anne: 8:52

Yes. Um, and it's not the exception to the rule. It is a real and valid risk that survivors take when they try to engage systems for support. The family court system is another space. There is unfortunately a lengthy but recent history of, you know, especially protective mothers who come forward and say, we need safety. My kids need safety, we need a custody arrangement that provides that, that they shoot the messenger that that protective parent is at fault for raising these issues of abuse. And in cases where a mother pleads that there's been domestic violence or child abuse, she is more likely to lose custody than for the child to be protected. We have at a, like I said, family to systems level, a real reticence to believe people, women especially, a real reticence to hold accountable perpetrators who seem perfectly normal, right? Like he was so nice to me. Like you know, he goes to work every day, you know, he's successful or not. So you asked the second part of that question was, you know, how does something like Aimee help? There are a lot of needs that can be addressed without ever engaging those systems, right? And and those can be addressed through this kind of verbal exchange and documentation and and validation with Aimee, which really closes off the need to engage a high-risk system. Or, you know, my mom doesn't believe me, or she just thinks we should stay together and we still have that level of companionship and validation that's gonna help that person heal. Also, just like, you know, your experience of trauma is very confusing. It's infused with all sorts of, you know, maybe psychological abuse or gaslighting. Maybe you feel like you don't really know what happened. And Aimee can help kind of sort and collate that story in a way that allows you to kind of better process and understand, and that'll increase your chances of the right response from the systems when you get there.

Lyn: 10:48

Yeah, yeah. So, Anne I've got to believe as you share this with people, that you maybe get a lot of questions about the AI component, right? Because we're, I think we're still in this very easy or early stages of AI, and there's all kinds of questions. I know in our business at KidGlov, you know, we're really grappling with what's ethical, what's confidential, how do we bring in our clients, how do we train? And you've just really embraced it. As a matter of fact, you and I talked earlier before this podcast, and I want to get this right, but you've described AI, I believe, as a bridge that connects decades of advocacy, counseling, and research with scalable solutions for today. Can you talk more about that and maybe even share an example of how you put that into practice?

Anne: 11:42

Absolutely. Like AI, we think that AI is the conduit, yeah. That we connect a real person and their real experience to a tremendous body of research and understanding about all forms of abuse. Right now, or or you know, before now, the available resources are something you have to come up to, you have to read. You know, we'd love for you to have read it and then have been preventative in what happened in the future, but that's not quite how it works. And if you take a person who's in a, they know that they've got a problem, they know that their relationship is a problem, and they go and they read something that's static, it's very easy to say, well, my situation was a little bit different. Well, it wasn't a vacation, it was at home, so maybe that's different. You know, no one is better at kind of talking themselves out of their own boundaries than someone who's had them stretched like a gigantic rubber band. But with AI, that person gets to kind of have and live their experience directly within the context of all of this information. And it's that level of closeness, of proximity, of contextual awareness that that makes it resonate so deeply that it's really meaningful. We didn't invent the field of advocacy, we didn't invent the research, we just brought the experience and those things in direct contact.

Lyn: 13:03

I think that's so fascinating. And then to take that a step further, how can you use these AI tools to create access to justice for survivors? Because you know what I hear you saying is hey, the Aimee is helping me, Aimee's answering my questions, Aimee's helping me diagnose certain situations, but then also Aimee's helping me access the justice system, which quite frankly seems very overwhelming to me.

Anne: 13:35

So survivors have really often a long list of justiceable experiences, things that are potentially remedied in either the civil or criminal legal system. So keep that part in mind. And the second part we keep in mind is that the most dominant voice in their head, the most dominant narrative in which they're paralyzed is the narrative of their the perpetrator, of the abuser. So if I know or I feel like, okay, there's a problem and this kind of behavior might be illegal, but I am getting a dominant narrative that no, I am the problem. I have caused this. That is my first barrier to accessing the civil or criminal.

So even in that conversation that I have with Aimee and the validation and maybe doing some statute matching, like, oh, yeah. So him throwing my phone, him keeping me from leaving the house, there are statutes that that make it clear that that's criminal behavior, that I have a potential justiceable issue. You know, so from that side all the way down, you know, how do I put together my experience, which is evidence, right, in that context, in a way that somebody can hear? Um, how do I, how do I pair this experience that I had to the framework around domestic violence or course of control? How do I put it around a framework of you know the best interest for children, right? That's a statute in which parenting time and decision-making decisions are made. So we can help them in taking their kind of messy, sometimes chaotic, dramatic experience and uniting it with the things that they're gonna need to prove in a legal setting.

Lyn: 15:09

Wow. That I mean, honestly, just thinking about the whole process is a little bit overwhelming. And I've got to believe that having a tool that helps walk you through it before you walk into somebody's office and they say, Well, do you have this and do you have that? And do you have this and do you have that? And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. And then you have to go back and get it and set up another appointment and take off work and rearrange your schedule, find child care for the kids, all the things. Like, I can see why people kind of give up midstream and just go, oh, well, it's not worth it.

Anne: 15:47

That's so that is so perfectly said. And you know, and plugging Aimee, no, ask Aimee, what kinds of things should I have prepared for this meeting? What are they going to be asking for from me? Like, well, you know, you're saying evidence of this, would this count? Those are the kinds of questions to help keep people on the straightest, quickest path from point A to point B. But all of the things you just talked about, those are also barriers, just logistical, right? Exhaustion. You're doing this in the context of ongoing abuse. It’s a real uphill slog for survivors.

Lyn: 16:15

Yeah. Could you help us? Could you take us through an example of how Aimee does this work in practice?

Anne: 16:23

Gosh, absolutely. I'll use an example from an office hours session that we had. There was a user from the UK. We do have users in over 150 countries.

Lyn: 16:33

I love that too. That's amazing, right? Really breaking down barriers. Yeah.

Anne: 16:39

Yes. So this user came to office hours, you know, very impacted by the trauma of their experience, their experience of course of control, which as I described, is a real uh significant pattern of autonomy destabilizing the domineering behaviors. And they were super impacted. They were having trouble articulating their experience, and you know, they finally get out. Well, I went to the police and I said, I'm experiencing course of control. And they said, Well, you you have to bring in a victim statement and prove it, which it, you know, first of all, this person's a victim. The fact that the burden of you know, initial proof is that heavy and on them, I have feelings about. But we were able to upload the course of control statute there and just ask Aimee, okay, walk, walk us through a set of questions to help elicit the kinds of experiences that were there. We're going to correlate that with the statute. And in an evidence-based and trauma-informed way and at the pace of this particular victim survivor, they answered all of the questions and then said, you know, I was like, all right, generate this into a victim statement that is in alignment with the course of control statute. And I got a message the following week that an arrest had been made. And thank goodness, but that level of access, that level of support wasn't otherwise available to this person. And you know, the most important need for them at that time was their safety.

Lyn: 18:06

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah, it hurts to me just hearing you tell that, share that example, that maybe someday the justice system needs to adopt Aimee and have Aimee help prepare their, there's a marketing idea for you Anee, help prepare their constituents, their victims for for meetings, etc. Yeah. So how do you see Aimee changing the narrative for survivors?

Anne: 18:37

Gosh, by just giving them a voice that other people are willing to listen to, helping them transition, advocating for yourself from a place of victimization is incredibly hard. You know, you're in a fight or flight, you know, you're experiencing symptoms of PTSD, you're still living in fear and shadow. And if we can move them from that experience as a victim towards their experience as an empowered, credible narrator and witness to their own experience, we have the opportunity to give them not just a voice, but the voice that is from within, right? It is their own experience that they need to be able to advocate for themselves. And I can't, I can't imagine a better way to spend my time than to, you know, to help grow wings upon all of these folks who have, you know, significant experiences and they need help just getting off the ground.

Lyn: 19:30

Yeah. What I love about that too is when you think about the impact of this or the potential impact of this. I mean, you're gonna touch a lot of victims, a lot of survivors, but then there's always that ripple effect, right? Like they have kids, they have parents, they have friends, they have a workplace. I mean, when you think about going through this type of trauma, there's so much it impacts because it's got to feel like well you are like right in the thick of it. It's got to feel like you've got a cloud over your head and it clouds every single thing you do, every single interaction you have for a certain amount of time until you feel like you've come out the other side. And it might be forever, and it might even be generations, right? As you study and think of generational trauma, right? Like how often does this happen to multiple generations or impact multiple generations? So it this is a pretty cool deal, Anne I can see why you are so excited about it.

Anne: 20:40

Yes, deeply passionate. And you're right, there's an intergenerational aspect and victimization is an identity addendum. It's it impacts every way that you view every facet and interaction in your life. You're absolutely right. The way you show up at work, the way you show up as a parent, whether or not you can continue on with school, how close you're willing to be in relationships with other people, right? It impacts all of it.

Lyn: 21:05

Wow. Wow. So I mentioned when we first started talking how I love the fact that you speak of Aimee as a person. And you know, KidGlov is a firm that does a lot of branding. It's something I'm very passionate about. I'd just love to hear your perspective on the brand, Aimee Says. Tell me more.

Anne: 21:28

Yes, absolutely. Aimee's name was long thought over. We wanted it to feel soft and safe to say. There's no hard sounds in it. No, but it has AI in it. Um Aimee in a in a particular way. And that spelling of Aimee in French means it's the feminine form of beloved. And relationship abuse is an assault on love and what that means and the safety that lives inside of that. And we wanted to extend that self-love to all the folks who interact with her.

Lyn: 22:03

That is beautiful, Anne. So I've just got to ask, what is on the horizon for Aimee Says?

Anne: 22:11

Well, we are building out all sorts of tools on new kind of data modeling and handling and tagging infrastructure that's behind the scenes so that people can continue to just tell their story as they've experienced it to get the help that they need. And Aimee's able to do a lot more with that information in the background. So, whatever need comes up, somewhat at the click of a button, literally, then Aimee's able to produce the documentation, you know, the data visualization, whatever that's necessary. We want to make it as easy as possible for survivors to take those next steps because they still have a future.

Lyn: 22:46

I love that. And we all know AI is just going to keep getting better and better and better. And you are going to have that as part of your opportunity as well. And for people who are listening who would like to find out more information about Aimee says, maybe access the tools and the app, how do they find out more about you? 

Anne: 23:10

They're going to go to AimeeSays.com. It's A-I-M-E-E.

Lyn: 23:12

Okay. Aimee says.com, A-I-M-E-E, and we are going to have that in the show notes on the KidGlov website as well for anybody who needs to grab that. So, Anne, since you are deep into this area, I'd really like to ask, what guidance or advice would you give someone who better wants to support survivors or become part of the solution?

Anne: 23:42

I'll go back to what I said a few minutes ago. We don't keep our door open to this kind of stuff. So people don't share it. There's a lot of ways to show that your door is open. We never want to tell survivors what they should do or victims what they should do, but hey, you know, I noticed you might be feeling uncomfortable, uncomfortable about that thing that happened. I'm here. One thing that we have folks do is just put Aimee in your in your signature line in your email. Uh that's it, you know, relationship abuse and a hyperlink that goes straight out to Aimee. Keeping your door open is my number one recommendation.

Lyn: 24:15

Yep. You know what? If I can even, I'm going to admit something to you, Anne. I was in a conversation earlier this week where a friend of mine disclosed that his daughter had been the victim of abuse. And I instantly felt myself going and then not knowing how to talk about it, right? And just saying, oh, I'm really sorry, and then really just kind of clamming up. And as we are talking right now, I just want to say that out loud to acknowledge, you know, next time it happens, I can change that a little bit more, right? Or maybe even, I'm even thinking right now, maybe even I send him an email with a link to Aimee Says maybe they would find that to be helpful.

Anne: 25:03

Yes, a hundred percent. And people are looking for that reaction. They give a little piece of information and we learn really quickly is this a person who has, you know, the emotional presence and flexibility to have this conversation because it's really hard to have.

Lyn: 25:15

And I'm feeling, you know, a little bit honestly, a little bit embarrassed, a little bit in shame, ashamed, but also a little bit human and a little bit like, okay, I can do better next time.

Anne: 25:26

And that chapter isn't closed, you can reach right back out.

Lyn: 25:29

Yeah, thank you for that. All right Anne, I'm going to switch gears here a little bit. Not because that was an uncomfortable conversation, but because this is the next thing in the natural order of the podcast. Um, all of our listeners know that I am inspired by motivational quotes. I ask this question of all of our guests, but I would love an Anne Wintemute original quote to inspire our listeners.

Anne: 25:54

My quote is your story isn't over yet. It's applicable to everyone. It's so easy to be stuck in the moment. What we're experiencing right now feels forever. But survivors, especially, they you have a future. This story is not done being told. I have a tattoo of an ellipsis on my hand here. It's the dot dot dot, right? We think that's the end of the story, but there are many plot twists in the future because your story is not over yet.

Lyn: 26:21

That is beautiful, and I love the tattoo. I love a good, meaningful tattoo. That is amazing. Anne, I have so loved getting to know you to talk about your work and the great things that you're doing. As we wrap up our time together today, I'd like to end on what is the most important thing you would like people to remember about the work that you're doing?

Anne: 26:48

This is all of our work. If we're going to succeed at reducing the rates of harm, like that college age girl you were talking about, domestic violence is the leading cause of death and serious injury in that age group. They have the highest rates of victimization. This is all of our jobs. And Lyn, you gave a great story. When somebody maybe teases around the edge of having a conversation, lean in, open the door, let us be safe to talk about those experiences because that's how we're going to change things.

Lyn: 27:19

What a beautiful sentiment and great advice. I'm already thinking through like how can I be better at this. So if nothing else today, Aimee has inspired me to be better. So thank you for that, Anne. And I'm just going to wrap up here by saying I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more tools like Aimee to help support survivors and the people around them. Thank you so much for taking time to share with us today.

Anne: 27:49

Thank you so much for having me, Lyn. 

Anne: 27:53

We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a change maker you'd love to hear from, visit kidglov.com at kidglov.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you've heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.