Agency for Change : A Podcast from KidGlov

Changemaker Mark Mohammadpour, Founder and Chief Well-being Officer, Chasing the Sun

• KidGlov • Season 1 • Episode 258

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What if the most powerful question you could ask about your workplace was simply: "Is my life better because I work here?" Mark Mohamedpour, Founder and Chief Well-being Officer of Chasing the Sun, believes this question gets to the heart of what truly matters in creating healthy workplace cultures.

The conversation explores how leaders can create more people-first cultures through regular meaningful conversations, addressing the perception gap between how executives view employee health versus employees' actual experiences, and navigating the complexities of remote work, generational differences, and social connection. Mark shares practical strategies for building empathy in the workplace, setting boundaries, and managing energy effectively. Mark's approach goes far beyond superficial workplace perks to address what really helps people shine. 

Welcome to the Agency for Change podcast.


Connect with Mark and Chasing the Sun at: 

·       Website – https://chasingthesunpdx.com/

·       LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/markmohammadpour/

·       Email Mark – mark@chasingthesunpdx.com

Connect with Mark and Chasing the Sun at: 

·       Website – https://chasingthesunpdx.com/

·       LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/markmohammadpour/

·       Email Mark – mark@chasingthesunpdx.com

 

Mark Mohammadpour: 0:01

Empathy is an insurance policy for your relationships.

Announcer: 0:07

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of changemakers who are actively working to improve our communities. In every episode, we'll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call home.

Lyn Wineman: 0:22

Hey everyone, Welcome back to the Agency for Change podcast. This is Lyn Wineman, President and Chief Strategist of KidGlov. On this particular podcast, we like to shine a spotlight on people and brands making the world a brighter place, and sometimes we get to do that literally. Today's guest knows all about chasing the sun, both in his life and at work. Mark Mohammadpour is the Founder and Chief Well-being Officer of Chasing the Sun. He is a global keynote speaker who has helped organizations from Adobe to the US Army build stronger cultures, better communication and, ultimately, happier humans. So buckle up. We're about to talk wellness, culture and why your boardroom could use a little more sunshine. Mark, welcome to the podcast.

Mark Mohammadpour: 1:32

Thank you, Lyn, it's wonderful to be here.

Lyn Wineman: 1:34

I am so looking forward to talking to you, because you are in Portland, I am in Nebraska, I know it's very early for you, so it seems appropriate that the name of your company is Chasing the Sun. Can you tell us a little bit about Chasing the Sun and the work you do?

Mark Mohammadpour: 1:55

After working in public relations for 20 years, working with companies like Microsoft, the US Army, and after losing and keeping off 150 pounds, I launched Chasing the Sun. Yeah, I know, no shakes, no pills, ate less, exercise more. I launched Chasing the Sun to empower people to shine, and it's been a journey over the last six years with Chasing the Sun, which was at the beginning primarily a health coaching company for PR professionals and communicators, and now it's a full-blown employee culture and well-being consultancy. I talk to companies about their culture, about their well-being. We ultimately want healthy employees because healthy employees, healthy people, can positively impact business results, and so I deliver relatable, practical and actionable conversations around empathy, around how to create a culture of well-being, around communication that ultimately help to increase transparency and build relationships and really help answer the question of is my life better because I work here. So today I’m leading workshops, delivering keynotes all around that nexus of communication, employee culture and well-being, and it's been a wonderful journey so far.

Lyn Wineman: 3:13

I love so much about what you're saying, Mark. People won't be able to see this because this is a podcast and we don't record video with this podcast. But I am smiling ear to ear because I love so much of what you said and I wrote down so many notes just on this first response. But I wrote down the first thing that really struck me is you said I do this work to empower people to shine. Wow, that's got to make it fun to jump up and get out of bed every day, doesn't it?

Mark Mohammadpour: 3:46

It does, and I think one of the things that as over time, Lyn, that I take a lot of pride in is really sort of helping redefine well-being. When we think about wellness, for instance, we think a lot about in terms of these things that we kind of purchase right, we purchase healthy drinks and healthy gym equipment, and those things are important, but what I'm trying to do is really help create conversations that help people feel better about themselves every day, about their confidence, about their willingness to show up at work every day, their ability to build strong relationships, and that means kind of getting through the fluff, and so when I think about helping people shine, it's to be able to say I want people to be able to sleep well at night, I want people to feel rested when they wake up, I want people to be able to show up at work and at home in the best way that they know how, and so to do that requires a lot of energy and a lot of transparency and communication, and so that's where my conversations really help create a path for people to be able to say, yeah, I can, I can make some changes to my life and improve not only myself personally but myself professionally and see the results quickly.

Lyn Wineman: 5:11

Oh, Mark, that's fantastic. I'm going to tell you the second thing I wrote down, because you packed so much into that opening statement. The second thing I wrote down is you want people to answer the question is my life better because I work here? Wow. And as the founder of an agency called KidGlov that speaks to taking great care of both brands and people, that is a really amazing question about your culture and also a really terrifying question, right as an employer, to say can my employees positively answer this question? Is my life better because I work here? Wow, what led you to that point, to put that audacious question out there and fabulous question at the same time? 

Mark Mohammadpour: 6:07

It is audacious. I think it surprises people a little bit, but that's the truth. I come from a family of people who have worked in the same job in the same company for decades. My mom was a registered nurse at the same hospital for 40 years. My grandfather worked on the Burlington Northern Railroad, from Minnesota to the West Coast, working on the caboose. He was there for 40 years and when he retired, the company gave him a gold watch and all of those things, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I just think society has evolved where people are not working at the same company for a long time. We have the advent of the internet and social media and AI and really beyond sort of the life-changing circumstances that had to result. It's really about information sharing and people realizing oh my gosh, I could be doing different things with my life and still feel healthy, still make money, still be able to provide for my family, and I think I share this message around. Is my life better? Not to put a lot of pressure on companies, but at the same time, it is this reality. It's how am I showing up as leaders?

It's what I'm offering as a company from a benefit standpoint, from a pay time off standpoint, from a rapport standpoint, from a communication standpoint and ultimately helping people's confidence, their sleep, and a lot of us think primarily about financials and of course, that's a huge part of it, but there's a number of different elements around compensation and around how people are feeling, and so I think it's an important conversation to have, and I think it's also an important conversation is that leaders within companies that are managing people and this kind of gets to the other point of this is, as I think, about people's relationship with their company. It's really around the people that they're spending a lot of their time with. No matter if you're a company of five or 5,000, it's really around the people you're spending a lot of your time with. That is impacting that relationship with their company. And so those are the conversations that I lead, because I think, ultimately, we need to have some frank conversations in the workplace and treat our employees like adults, and this kind of gets to the heart of it.

Lyn Wineman: 8:24

Absolutely, Mark, I saw a statistic a few years ago that said most of us are going to spend 200,000 hours at a job. Right an investment of 200,000 hours, I mean, yes, you're getting money for that time, but I mean that's a lot of time to be unhappy or unfulfilled or stressed out, because you and I both come from this field of marketing and PR, where I think this field attracts adrenaline junkies, right, we're not known for having the most healthy cultures, the most healthy lifestyles. In some cases it's employer-imposed. In some cases and I'm going to take ownership for myself or for the early part of my life sometimes it's self-imposed because we tend to be competitive and we tend to kind of seek that glory or that dopamine hit of the front page article or the you know viral social media campaign or the award winning television campaign, right. And so I'd love to hear your experience transitioning from that world into what you're doing today.

Mark Mohammadpour: 9:48

One of the reasons why I became a PR professional is that no, two days are ever the same, and I love being able to do all the different things, and so, and even though I don't necessarily do PR anymore, this would be an example of me doing PR, but not doing PR for other clients. It's more PR for myself these days. But I think, you know, one of the things that we, as a society, we just don't have the opportunity to learn in school and college and as new professionals is how do we set boundaries? What is our relationship like with, you know, with work? I think, in general, a society has an opportunity to have a little bit healthier relationship.

A lot of people's lives are connected to work, their purpose, their value, their mission, and my message, Lyn, is to not stop people from working if they're not passionate about it. What I want to do is I just really want people to take a step back and evaluate their relationship with work and, as you're saying, you're spending more than 200,000 hours. If you were to take a step back and analyze how many of those hours are spent working, in meetings, actually providing value, how are you feeling good about that? I think that's a. It's kind of a scary exercise, but it's an important exercise.

And so you know, the other part of this is as leaders and you yourself as a you know as a founder and you know leader of your company. It's also recognizing our employees are looking up to us and they're following our lead and sometimes we have to remind ourselves that how we show up at work every day, how we show up or don't show up when we're on vacation, on nights and weekends, that people are looking at us. Because they want to say I want to be Lyn one day or I want to be my manager one day. How do I get there? Oh, she's doing this or he's doing that. I have to do that. And I think having those conversations can have a ripple effect on how those 200,000 hours can be spent or should be spent. And a lot of that comes down to communication, which is where my background in PR and communication really lends itself, to having conversations about employee culture and well-being and a lot of that. That's what a lot of this comes down to.

Lyn Wineman: 12:18

Absolutely, Mark I'm still asking you questions based on your first answer because it was just so good and I think it's a testament to the kind of PR professional you are too. But the third thing that I noted from your very first answer was you said I deliver workshops, keynotes, coaching. I'm probably not even including all of the things and I'll let you help me out there, and you covered it in that first question. 

But I just want to say that I met you because you and I were both doing keynotes at a fabulous event called On Brand in Omaha, Nebraska, and I was so taken with your presentation on employee wellness and really what wellness means. Because I've always said, you know, wellness doesn't mean having a shuffleboard table, it doesn't mean pizza on Fridays, it doesn't mean having an open keg, you know, in the office that you can tap whenever you need to or whenever it's acceptable. It doesn't mean unlimited vacation, which I think we all kind of are on to the fact that that actually favors the employer anyway. But I just want to say in front of everybody that that presentation, I think, was so good and so impactful and I'm curious to ask why this work is so important to you, Mark and that may seem like a silly question, but I don't want to leave anything on the table here.

Mark Mohammadpour: 13:56

Well, that means a lot and I really appreciate that and I take a lot of pride in the conversations that I deliver. Why this work means so much to me is in 2007, I was 350 pounds.

Lyn Wineman: 14:09

I just can't believe that, because you are a vision of health right now.

Mark Mohammadpour: 14:14

Well, this was kind of becoming an adult, becoming a professional, buying a house, trying to grow in your career. There's just so many other things you put first and yourself last. And I realized I needed to make a change. And it wasn't just even on the scale. It was breaking chairs in restaurants, it was having sleep apnea, it was how I felt in my clothes, how I felt sitting in a coach seat on an airplane, flying for five hours for a work trip. It's just all these factors made me realize that I needed to make some changes. And when I proposed to my now wife, Christina, she said yes, I realized okay, I need to make some, some, changes. And so I've managed to lose and keep off 150 pounds.

Lyn Wineman: 15:01

Again a healthy diet. Congratulations, because that is just one of the hardest things you can possibly do.

Mark Mohammadpour: 15:06

Well, I appreciate that and fast forward 10 years to 2017, 2018, I was thinking about my relationship with public relations and by that time I'd been in the profession for more than 15 years and I was thinking about where my strengths were, and that was really in leading teams and making sure that, because oftentimes I would come in and run a team within an agency and the message was you know, Mark, we need to help, we need to help stabilize this team. We have smart people, good relationship with the clients, but they're burning out. You know some people are starting to leave. Can you help kind of stabilize them? And so I would come in and really, you know, lead conversations around what do you want your role to be on this team? What do you want your role to be with this agency, talking to the clients about their needs and really be able to help set some boundaries and guidelines around how these teams are going to be operating. And so I felt really proud and be able to retain the business, retain businesses through the management of the team.

It was less about the tactical work that I was doing. Yes, I was still doing PR strategy and things like that, but it was recognizing that a lot of the teams had very smart people, very good relationships with the media and other folks, and I just felt very comfortable in that role and so I sort of combined that background with my weight loss journey and so I think there's something here to talk about the well-being of the PR professional, which has obviously expanded beyond that vertical. I'm working with companies in all sorts of different capacities and then I think over the last few years, with the kind of the shifting relationship between employees and employers, the remote work, the hybrid, there's a need to lead conversations on this topic for the foreseeable future, and so that's where my passion for the mission comes in and I just love where it's at and excited for what's to come.

Lyn Wineman: 17:11

That's fantastic. So, Mark, it seems to me like, too, this is a message that's really important right now. Like I'm really curious, like what are you seeing in today's workplace that makes this message of wellness so important?

Mark Mohammadpour: 17:29

Yeah, well, I just to kind of tie a bow on a number of the points, but I think it's people's relationship with time and recognizing that time is their life and it may not be at this particular company, and so I think it's examining that, it's looking at. You know, we had a point in time, Lyn, where a lot of people were able to work from home and that was a big shift for a lot of folks who were used to coming to the office five days a week. And there's this perpetual conversation about being in the office and the value of that versus being at home, and there's a lot of, you know there needs to be discussions about that and understanding. There's also just this constant kind of conversation around mental health and there's some data from Deloitte that says there's a pretty big gap in perception of employee health.

Executives at companies think that their employees are a lot healthier than the employees themselves say, and so there's a communication issue there, there's a trust issue, I think, with that as well, and employees kind of opening up, and rightfully so. I mean that's a very deep topic and very personal topic, I think just in general, the challenges in social connection and belonging is key and I think part of that comes with being from home, working from home a long time, and we realize that we need to see each other in person. But you also have to put purpose behind that. If you make people come into an office and everybody is just on their computers all day, that doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

Lyn Wineman: 19:04

What's the point? Right, you're still on Zoom with. You’re going to come get dressed up and come into the office to be on Zoom versus doing it from home.

Mark Mohammadpour: 19:15

And then you have the constant lens. You kind of have the constant headlines about the different generations. We have four or five different generations that are working, and what we see in various surveys or in the media is this heightened sort of battle between generations, and we see this constantly, and you see the various stereotypes about one generation versus another, and I'm just here to remind folks and I share this in Omaha is that this has been a message that has been led for decades. If you look at magazine articles from the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, there's constant talk about the upcoming younger generation being lazy, being entitled. This is a new version of that.

At the same time, though, we have to recognize that there's a generation of folks. If you're in your 20s right now, in your late teens, a critical part of your life was spent during a pandemic, and so we have to remind ourselves of all these. So there's just all these factors around how we're spending our time at work, whether we're physically in office or elsewhere. It's around the challenges around mental health, which, in part, is around social isolation in part, but not completely, but in part and then the generational divide and how we, as people, are connecting with each other and learning from each other. Not trying to put individuals in a box, but learning about each other as an individual basis. These are the things that I'm leading conversations with teams and with companies about, and trying to open up the doors to get people to think things a little bit differently than perhaps they have or have been told to over the last few years.

Lyn Wineman: 21:06

Mark, what you're saying reminds me of a book that I read earlier this year that I really enjoyed. It's a fiction book. It's called Anxious People. It sounds like a self-help book or maybe a book on PR and advertising. People, right, but Anxious People. The point of the book is it's so easy to meet someone think based on stereotypes and surface level judgments, that you know exactly what's going on with them, and the whole story in this book, Anxious People, is unraveling that what's happening below the surface is much, much different than what you think and what you're saying really speaks to me.

I also recently had a conversation with somebody on on KidGlov staff and we provide people great flexibility to. You know, our team is really proven. They can, they can work from wherever they want to work and be productive, and you know we're doing everything we can be productive and you know we're doing everything we can. But this person said to me I feel more lonely right now than I have in a long time and that you know, as somebody who's trying to build a fantastic culture, that really struck me and the kind of whole tension between figuring out, you know, workplace flexibility but yet this whole loneliness issue, which is really a big deal right now, and I'm sure you deal with this as you work with people as well.

Mark Mohammadpour: 22:39

Absolutely, and I am not a mental health expert, I'm not a licensed practitioner in that world, but I think this is an issue and it will continue to be an issue and so I think anybody who feels like that definitely needs to seek the advice of a professional.

But I think, as leaders you know you were talking about a few minutes ago about kind of showing up and recognizing that this is where empathy comes in, and these are keynote conversations that I lead around, specifically cognitive empathy and really about understanding the perspective of others and it is sort of checking our bias at the door and realizing that, uh, you know, for everything, for how we're showing up there, there's so much that is beneath the surface and the idea is not necessarily to dig that out and try to get it. It's at least recognizing that. You know people have a lot of stuff going on. If you're, you know, this is one of the things that you know as you grow up in life.

And you know I used to think my elementary teachers and you know, my junior high teachers and high school teachers are kind of these like superhuman people, that they're not actually human but you don't realize that they have kids and they have bills and they have aging parents and all this stuff. And then you get in the professional world and you kind of relearn this about your boss and your clients. Right, your clients might be focusing on each other for a finite amount of time, but they are focusing on so many other elements of their business and their executives and that has a trickle down effect on how they're working with you and how decisions are made and all these things, which then has a ripple effect on your confidence and your ability to work and all these factors. These are important conversations that we need to have, and the more transparent, open and honest we can be with each other, the better it's gonna be for the employees and then, ultimately, the employer as well.

Lyn Wineman: 24:40

Mark, you know what I remember once having a client that was somewhat difficult to work with, and I had the opportunity to have a heart-to-heart with her one day, and what she revealed to me was that she was constantly in fear of losing her job. And so, right, that gave me understanding, that gave me great empathy for her, it helped me understand why she was very resistant to any kind of idea that seemed out of the norm, right, or, you know, a little bit risky, and it just helped me, that understanding helped me work with her that much more. And so, related to that, I'm really curious what advice would you give to leaders who want to create that more people first, well-being, focused workplace? What are some key tips we could take away?

Mark Mohammadpour: 25:37

I think one of the things that we in kind of business world sort of lean on are these performance reviews, and some companies do them every year, some every six months, and we sort of wait to get that feedback from everybody and then we're going to take action to a plan. We have to get a little bit more scrappy with those types of things, and I think what leaders need to do is, every few weeks, they need to have one-on-one conversations with their teams and ask a few questions like how are you doing? Do you understand what your priorities are? What can I do for you? What should I, as a leader, continue to do? Because I think that's something we also don't ask. A lot is we ask what should we stop doing or start doing? What should we continue to do?

And I think that's a two-way dialogue, not just for the employer to ask the employee or the employee to ask their manager, but the boss to ask their employee as well, because a lot of those things are not said, and I think it's really key so having those conversations and then following up right to be able to say look, we're having this. And this doesn't have to be a heavily structured conversation, Lyn, it doesn't have to be very long, it can be part of a one-on-one, but there are specific questions to ask and look for patterns over time, look for ways to act on those changes. If you if it's let's say, I'm making this up, but you're responsible for a team of 10 and you have these conversations and you hear from six or eight of the 10 with a specific challenge. Maybe they can't take time off or they don't know what the priority is or whatever be able to say look, let's have a conversation here and let's put together a pilot program over the next few months that addresses this specific issue, and then we can measure the results from there. People want to be heard and they also want to know that action is being taken.

I think this is one of the things that companies get so nervous about doing surveys is that they're afraid to get the feedback. They should not be afraid to get the feedback. Employees want to get the feedback, but employees also want to know that something that's going to happen as a result of it, and so that's the other part of it. It's not just listening, but actually, you know, taking charge. So this might seem very simple, and on paper it is, but this alone can incredibly increase, you know, the cultural well-being of your teams.

Lyn Wineman: 28:07

I love that. I heard you say regular interaction, providing feedback, listening to challenges and then taking action, meaningful action. I think that's fantastic, and once again, I didn't see any mention of unlimited vacation or powder days or shuffleboard in there, which I really appreciate. Mark, one thing I want to say to you is I love your brand. As a branding professional, somebody who's written a book on branding Chasing the Sun, tell me more. I mean, it fits so perfectly with your mission of empowering people to shine, but I'd love to hear a little bit more about how that came about and what it means to you.

Mark Mohammadpour: 28:52

Well, coming from a branding expert, that truly means a lot. So thank you. There's three main areas where that comes from. The first is really in the name. Chasing the Sun to me is not about the destination, it's about the journey. So my weight loss journey, it's a journey. It's a continuing journey because of the life that it's given me and I'm still living that life. It's a new chapter, but this journey for me has helped open the doors. You and I would not have met if it were not for that and so many of the people and companies that I've had the honor to you know, to meet with over the last few years. It's been a huge part of the journey. So that's one um. My mom used to sing you're my sunshine to me growing up, so that's an ode to my mom about that. And then the third chasing the sun is a lyric, part of a lyric in a song called Slide Away, which is from a band called Oasis. That was very big in the 90s. You might know Wonderwall or Champagne Supernova.

They're my favorite band in the world. We're recording this in 2025. They were big in the 90s. They've had a resurrection. They are selling out 80,000 seat stadiums in Europe. They're coming here to the US. I'm going to see them later this year and so, just combined, it just sort of came to life one day, and so that's how Chasing and the Sun came to be.

Lyn Wineman: 30:18

I love it. So, Mark, you've just proven one of my theories. My book is called Untangling Spaghetti A Branding Fable, because I believe that creating a brand is like untangling spaghetti and what you just gave us. There are those three key pieces that helped you come together to create that beautiful brand Chasing the Sun, and I love that so much. So, Mark, for those that are listening that want to get in touch with you to do a workshop, do a keynote, do some coaching, what's a good way for people to find you?

Mark Mohammadpour: 30:51

Yeah, so the first is my website, chasingthesunpdx.com. Yeah, I'm very and I'm very active on LinkedIn. Those are the two best ways to reach me. You can email me at mark@chasingthesunpdx.com.

Try to make it very simple for folks, and I think one of the things I love about this over the last few years, Lyn, is evolving the topics and listening to my clients as far as what they're interested in, and that's beyond even empathy or creating a culture of well-being.

I'm talking with companies about passionate work and what that looks like, but it's also about bringing energy. You have to have the energy in order to bring passionate work. So what does that look like around civility, which is just a critical topic now and for the foreseeable future, and how do we treat each other with respect? Because all this land it it ladders up to the overall mission around empowering people to shine, and the energy that it takes to show up is key, because I think people take a lot of pride at work. A lot of times, what we're talking about is that work is bad and companies are bad, and what I'm trying to do is really help build conversations between groups, because there is good in the work that we do as long as we feel passionate about what we're doing, and so I'm just trying to make sure that folks have the energy in order to do that and provide people with some practical and actionable ways in order to do so.

Lyn Wineman: 32:17

I'm glad you brought up energy, because I think that energy is just so important. I think you can have days where you go home and you're completely exhausted, but you're not physically exhausted, you're emotionally exhausted. And learning how to, I think almost as important as setting boundaries is learning how to manage your energy, and maybe that actually is the most important. Boundary is what am I going to give my energy to today? I'd love to hear your talk on energy. So hopefully, hopefully, I'll get to experience that someday, Mark.

Mark Mohammadpour: 32:54

That'd be wonderful.

Lyn Wineman: 32:55

I can't wait to hear your answer to this next question, because it's my favorite question. I've asked it on every podcast, Mark. Our listeners know I am inspired by motivational quotes and when I got up this morning I was thinking I wonder what original motivational quote Mark is going to give us today. So what do you have in mind?

Mark Mohammadpour: 33:18

Empathy is an insurance policy for your relationships. I think, I wholeheartedly believe that how we respond to people, how we care about people, how we understand their perspective, is going to have an impact on the relationship for months, years and decades to come. And the more empathy that we can have and you can actually learn to be more empathetic there's, you know, varying scales as far as kind of what we're bored with, but things like experiencing the arts you know, reading fiction, taking care of others that you know that need to be taken care of, like, you know, my sweet puppy Molly those types of things help increase our empathy and our perspective. And it's just understanding that.

And that's everything from how a manager treats their employee to how an employee treats their manager, because the roles could be reversed. One day they could be a referral, they could be a client yes, you know, and obviously that translates to personal relationships as well. So this is a mantra of mine that I've been trying to live with, and sometimes some days are easier than others, especially if you have various meetings get canceled or clients go in a different direction or whatever. It's like to try not to take it personal and realize it's various scenarios and no one's intending to hurt or make things difficult and realizing that you know there's sunnier days ahead.

Lyn Wineman: 34:57

Sunnier days ahead. I love it. I expected nothing less than brilliance from you, but empathy is an insurance policy for your relationships. I feel like I'd love to have that on a poster on the wall right across from me so I can see it all the time. Mark I’ve loved talking to you, and I'm sad that our time is coming to an end here. As we wrap up our time together today, what is the most important thing you'd like our listeners to remember about the work that you're doing?

Mark Mohammadpour: 35:30

That the role of communication and respecting one another goes so far in not only the relationship between the employee and the employer, but the health and safety of your people, and you can care about people and still meet your business objectives, and in fact, I think it's important to, and I don't think healthy businesses are healthy if you don't take care of your people, and so I think that's the one thing that I want to close with is healthy people equals healthy business results, and vice versa.

Lyn Wineman: 36:08

I love that so much. Mark, thank you so much for spending time with us today. I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more firms like Chasing the Sun, and I really appreciate you taking time with us today.

Mark Mohammadpour: 36:25

My pleasure, Lyn, thank you so much for having me.

Announcer: 36:28

We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities or to nominate a changemaker you'd love to hear from. Visit kidglov.com at K-I-D-G-L-O-V.com to get in touch, as always. If you like what you've heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe and share. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.